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Just needs time and practice?
These Guys Are Good, But How Good?
By Snyper on 7/6/10
Matt Snyder is an opinionated* golf enthusiast from Pennsylvania. He coaches at the high school level, molding the minds and swings of our next generation. Feel free to chime in with your thoughts and opinions of Matt in the comments. Don't hold back- because Matt won't.

Every time that I watch the PGA Tour, I am impressed with the ability of those players. However, I am also curious of how much of their success is attributed to all the luxuries of a Tour pro. Obviously, these guys are the best in the world, but how much better are they than the guy that only plays 25 times a year and is a scratch golfer at the local public course? This is a conversation/debate that I have had with several people and I would love to know the answer. It is my opinion that, while the pros are great players, they are not THAT much better than the best local amateurs.

Now, don't get me wrong, I know they are the best players in the world and I'm not trying to take that away from them, but they also have everything imaginable to foster their talent. Think about the guy at your club or the best local player that you know. I think it's safe to say that we all have a name or two in mind of the best amateur player around and he's probably scratch or even better. I'm also guessing that he has a job and probably some other hobbies that take up most of his time. Yet, he can step out of the car and onto the first tee and shoot par or better without all the things that accompany a pro. Imagine how much better that guy would be if he quit his job and spent eight to ten hours a day playing and practicing golf. Now, picture him being sponsored by a major company who would supply him with the exact equipment that he needs. Oh, and don't forget to supply him with a caddie to give him an exact yardage and conditions report for every shot. But, we’re not done yet. Lastly, take that local course that he plays and remove all the imperfections, trample down all the rough, remove any out-of-bounds stakes, place spotters on every hole, and manicure every blade of grass as if it were a movie star. How good is the local scratch amateur now?

Oh, and don't forget to supply him with a caddie to give him an exact yardage and conditions report for every shot.
Alright, alright. We cannot ignore the effect of the pressures that the professionals feel with millions of people watching. In fact, I think it's safe to say that the ability to handle the pressures alone is enough to separate a lot of the guys that make it from the guys that don’t make it. Just think about how nervous most of us get on the first tee when there is another group or two standing there and watching us tee off. Understandably, the guys on the PGA Tour have dealt with people watching them play for long enough that I’m sure that they have become immune to a lot of those nerves. Even still, they feel the gravity of the pressures and they have to be able to handle it.

The other variable between the local amateur and the PGA pro is the difficulties of the courses they play. I pointed out some of the ways that I believe the PGA courses are easier, like hardly any o.b. and rough that is flattened by spectators, but the added challenges should also be mentioned. The obvious difference is the length of those courses. But, the biggest added difficulty between the local club and the courses that the pros play is the speed and slope of the greens. If you have never played on greens that are rolling 11 or 12 on the Stimpmeter, you can’t overestimate how much it exaggerates the mistakes you make around the green. Chips and putts must be so much more precise on the greens that the Tour pros play on than those of the local public links. Fast, undulated greens also magnify the importance of accurate approach shots. You will not have success on those types of greens unless you leave the ball in the correct places. However, with all the practice rounds and charts of each green, there is no guesswork involved for the pros. A Tour pro knows exactly where he needs to hit each approach shot on the course. On the contrary, amateur players on local courses deal with making guesses on almost every shot.

With all the practice rounds and charts of each green, there is no guesswork involved for the pros.
It’s probably impossible to measure how much of a difference there is between the best local amateurs and the professionals. It is a pretty subjective comparison. So, the real question, in my mind, is what a typical PGA professional would shoot at a local public course. He has to play without hitting range balls, spending an hour on the putting green, or having a caddie. He has to deal with the terrible lies, less than perfect greens, slowness of other groups, out-of-bounds stakes, bunkers with varying levels of sand, and fairways mowed as high as the typical first cut of rough on a Tour course. I would pick an average player somewhere between Chris DiMarco and Steve Stricker. If I had to choose a number, I’m picking +2. I could see them shooting as well as even, but I highly doubt they would be under par, much less 65 or 66 like most people seem to imagine. I know they are good, but I don’t think we give enough credit for their results to the luxuries that they enjoy. I make the case that most scratch “part-time” amateurs have enough talent to make it professionally if they could only handle the pressure and have all the benefits of a full-time Tour pro. Sounds crazy, I know, but I believe it’s closer to true than you may think.


* Matt's views and opinions are his own do not necessarily reflect those of oobgolf.


Photo Source


[ comments ]
Kickntrue says:
These comments ought to get interesting! I totally see where you're coming from, but it reeks of bitterness. I think what you're really trying to say is if you have 10 hours a day and all of the things pros have- you could do what they do... right? I mean- you're a scratch golfer, wanting to get better- and your time is bottled up by other things?! I think you do make some good points, but I think you made two counter-points as "Credit" to the pros, but dismissed them with too much ease. To say mental game and green-side conditions are two reasons they really are better is ALL of the difference, but you pass them off as too minor.
7/6/10
 
birdieXris says:
2nd that @kickntrue -- this ought to be good.
7/6/10
 
Banker85 says:
I think if you brought out a Steve Stricker he would tear up a local course! ya they have the luxuries, and we have our disadvantages, but if a scracth golfer had to just try harder to make millions each year then why dont they? Because these PROS are mentally tougher than any amateur out there and that is the difference maker. I think if i had the luxuries for a summer of a caddie, perfect courses, fit to my game clubs, instruction, i would become a lot better. Good article!
7/6/10
 
mjaber says:
I think any Tour Pro SHOULD be able to walk on to any public/private/muni course, play from the tips and shoot somewhere between -6 and -12. If that's true or not, I have no idea.

The point about OB is a little misleading, I think. There is OB on all Tour stops, however the pros typically chose to play out of the OB/hazard, rather than incur the penalty and take a drop. I've done it on courses I've played.

I wonder how Mr. Snyder comes up with Steve Stricker being an "average" player. I'm pretty sure he's #14 on the Fedex Cup list and #4 in the World Golf Rankings. Of all the pro's, Stricker's game is probably better suited than anyones to go out and play anywhere.

The fact remains that Touring Pro's and top Amateurs are longer, straighter and more accurate than any local scratch golfer (unless he happens to be one of the top amateurs).
7/6/10
 
mjaber says:
I think a better test between a Tour Pro and a scratch golfer would be to take the equipment out of the mix. Both players using identical rental clubs. I think you would still see the Pro stomp all over the scratch golfer, but you would see a score from the pro closer to par.
7/6/10
 
rmumph1 says:
I believe that the pros handling the pressure is a major reason why they are pros and we are not. People that perform under pressure are called clutch and are considered the best at what they do. I know everytime I play with a new group, it takes me a couple holes to lose that pressure of performing well,(after I realize they are just as bad as me). I do agree on the conditions of the courses though. I hate hitting out of concrete that suppose to be sand, roughs that I can't even find my ball much less hit it. I agree with everything you say except that I believe the pressure separates the men from the boys.
7/6/10
 
Michael Colucci says:
I love reading your posts, but you are way off this time. I believe you vastly underestimate the mental aspect of playing tournament golf. The scratch golfer goes out and plays a $20 nassau; Pros play a game where one missed putt, one offline drive is the difference between making the cut and going home with nothing but bills to pay and no earnings. Picture doing this 20 or 30 times a year. Add in the incredible hassle of leaving your family and living out of hotel rooms (and doing it year after year) and pretty soon it gets tiresome. The PGA Tour (as is the LPGA, European Tour and let's not leave out the Nationwide Tour) is a taxing grind, so let's not begrudge these professionals the ability to play on well manicured courses
7/6/10
 
ElGalloGigante says:
Didn't Jerry Rice, excuse me, shit all over this idea?
7/6/10
 
sepfeiff says:
I think -2 to -10 is a fair score on a public course for a touring pro in the top 500 of world rankings. And within the top 50... I think they would be furious if they scored anything worse than 5 or 6 under par.
7/6/10
 
norm_pyle says:
"if they could only handle the pressure" Your words, not mine.
7/6/10
 
Kickntrue says:
@sepfieff- I can't find the video/article- and I wish I could, because I think we posted it on oob before... They've done this where they bring out a pro to a muni- and Matt is actually pretty close to right on with this number. They would NOT shoot -10 or even -5 in a single round. Give them 2 weeks, let them learn the course and it's intricacies and it's a different story though. I think that's a bit of the "problem" with this article- it's kind of arguing two different things. I agree a club champion could compete and maybe even beat a tour pro who comes to their course for a single round competition without knowing the course. Take the same two people to a course neither of them has ever played- and I think the pro wins 99 out of 100 times. They are MUCH better golfers...
7/6/10
 
cjgiant says:
Most local courses don't have the tees to challenge a tour pro effectively, I feel (to the length point). If the pros only need to use hybrids and 3W off the tee, they become all that much more accurate and the O.B. from the close houses (at least near me) remains out of play.

Also, the tour pros (especially around the green) handle tough lies better than most local players I've seen. And I have to agree that for most pros, it's putting that really sets them apart.

That being said, every week you see the pros that are "on" that week. You don't see the players that are "struggling" to a 76. So if you really took an "average" tour pro, you probably wouldn't see -6 to -12 from him, but he should still be able to top the local amateur more times than not.
7/6/10
 
sepfeiff says:
@Kikntrue - Todd Hamilton, John Senden, Rod Pampling and Paul Stankowski play every now and then at Bridlewood and they are in the 60's any day. I don't think you get any more average than those guys. There's a couple of other touring pros that play/practice at Bridlewood, not sure what they shoot though.
7/6/10
 
Kickntrue says:
@sepfeiff- right... but then they know the course. I'm totally in agreement that a pro could tear up a course they know. I think it is a separate argument to have him come play a single round on a course he's never played before- with no prep. I think Matt is mixing the two arguments in his article- but I do think a pro would "Struggle" a bit walking on to an unknown course.
7/6/10
 
sepfeiff says:
@kickntrue - I dunno, maybe the local public courses are really nice here. ;)

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20

I wonder if it was this article?
7/6/10
 
windowsurfer says:
I think I smell a reality TV show in this, "Beat the PGA Pro". Breed could host it. Next week: Sergio Garcia vs. A. Mensch @ Edgewood in Fargo, ND. I'd watch it.(There was an old TV show where Snead played movie stars, giving them strokes accdg to their handicaps. Randolf Scott beat Sammy playing to a 2 HC on one episode I saw.)
7/6/10
 
eventHorizon says:
Well I guess the only appropriate way to judge is to analyze the difference in handicap between a touring pro and a scratch player and play with somebody that is equally better to you and see how well you do.

What's a pro, about +7? Compared to your local 0 at your club, to make up 7 strokes of handicap the local would have to play out his butt and the pro would have to struggle. Can you easily match a player with a handicap 7 strokes better than you (gross)? I know I'd struggle.
7/6/10
 
brianshaffer32 says:
Don't our Local Amateurs get opportunities to Monday Qualify at courses they know almost every single week on the tour? Not to mention isn't the U.S. Open the one tournament that we see our local guys get a legit chance at the pro's? I mean a local guy can even get more practice in at a U.S. Open Qualifying course than a pro could prior to the local and or sectional qualifying. There were 10,000 applicants who attempted to qualify for the U.S. Open and only 2 of them made the cut. And these guys were the best in their college conferences with Pro potential written all over them. . . The pro's are just that good.
7/6/10
 
Werepuppie says:
Remember that the pros also play a practice round before every event.They get to drop balls in the rough in various places to see how it plays.They roll balls from various spots on the green to watch what happens.They never play courses that are truly unknown.
Local players frequently play courses they have never seen.They just step up and tee off.If there is a hidden creek in the middle of the fairway,too bad.
I still think that the pros would kill any local course because they hit it very far and very straight.A tour pro would average 3 to 5 under on a municipal course.
7/6/10
 
cjgiant says:
U.S. Open qualifying might be a good gauge, although they are playing for limited spots. The qualifying results shown below indicate there are a few amateur golfers (I count 10 official amateurs) making or just failing to qualify against a higher number (20 at least) of touring pros:

nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/19037868/
7/6/10
 
jpleboeuf says:
I happen to know a guy who played golf at a major D1 school. He married into a wealthy family who supports him in his dream of making the PGA. He doesn't have a job and focuses only on golf. He's certainly scratch and probably a couple strokes better. He plays a full time mini-tour schedule and makes the cut less than half the time. Currently his prospects don't look so good, but I'm sure he'll be able to pursue professional golf for a while longer. It's only one person, but you're underestimating just how much better the pros are, especially with regard to putting, which is his #1 problem.
7/6/10
 
lcgolfer64 says:
The main issue I have with the comparison is that the local scratch golfer generally knows more about the course than the pro and expecting a "no scouting, walk on, no practice, no putting, etc."
Maybe it's just I don't many scratch golfers that walk on to a course site unseen, unresearched and shoot scratch or better.
7/7/10
 
tcjonny says:
back when i was playing in college we had a league I played in on the side for fun. I played just one weekend my team wasn't traveling and a guy came who had spent 15 years struggling to get on the PGA tour and just got his Senior Tour card after playing 3 years on the Nationwide Tour. We played to about 6900 yards at our local course and this guy torched a 64 and it had been 8 years since he played the course. They are certainly about 4 or 5 strokes better than the best local amateurs, but where the real gap is, is in their consistency. While a top amateur has to play one of his better rounds to post a 68 at his local course, a pro could do it 5 times a week.
7/7/10
 
birdieXris says:
I think one of the most overlooked things about this whole conversation is the handicapping system. To get from a 10 handicap to a 6 handicap, you have to shoot well. It's do-able in one revision if you're playing well. To get from a 3 handicap to scratch you have to be playing EXCEPTIONALLY well and have to have scores in the 60s. That being said, to get from Scratch to a +3 like most of the pros you have to consistently shoot in the 60s. I mean CONSISTENTLY. It's much harder to shave the HCI down as you get closer to 0. So why don't tournaments end in 40 under par? On a normal course they would torch it, but don't forget how often you've heard "they're getting this course ready for the pros in (name of month)". That means a course that would usually play 69.9/125 is probably going to play more like 73.5/135 or harder. That's why they shoot 72 and higher. I was at the AT&T national on saturday and i had a chance to feel the fairways and teeboxes as i was crossing over a few holes.......
7/7/10
 
birdieXris says:
... they're like parking lots. I think a good to scratch golfer would blade or fluff a few shots easily off of them. The fairways were like most putting greens around here and the greens were pretty much painted dirt. As much as people say the pros have luxuries and an average golfer could do what a pro could if they were afforded the same practice, etc -- i say no. With enough time, maybe yes, but we're talking years.
7/7/10
 
Scott Shields says:
Q school. Anyone that can make the leap to and through Q school deserves to be a pro. The compeition out there is so fierce. There are probably 1000's of scratch golfers, competing for just a few spots, and these pro's seperate themselves still. I don't think its even close.
7/7/10
 
bacination says:
Is there a huge gap between the average pro and the local scratch golfer? Probably not. But there is a gap. The pros have the ability, on average, to call on their skill at will. The average scratch golfer obviously has some skill but is really at the mercy of when it shows up.

I play a 0-1 hcp at the moment, during a decent day I'll leave the course thinking of all the easy opportunities I had to play 4-5 under par that day... but somehow I always manage to just shoot even par because of a few stupid mistakes. I don't know that any amount of practice would ever improve that for me... which brings me to the point: their heads are just wired for golf.
7/7/10
 
tcjonny says:
I think I agree completely with a combination of the last 4 comments...
7/7/10
 
Johnny M says:
Scratch golfers and pros have the ability to hit the same shots. They can both hit the 300 yard drives and hit it stiff from 150 yards and in. The difference is in the putting. The pros NEVER 3 putt and from anywhere on the green think they can make it. Ask any top amatuer player why they didn't try to go on the tour and most will say "Because I can't putt." Being able to putt the way pros do allows them to shot a 73 on a bad day where a amatuer ends up with a 77 or higher. Look at jpleboeuf's example, it is in the putting.
7/7/10
 
Swingem says:
I recently read a book called "Paper Tiger" by Tom Coyne. It chronicals his yearlong effort to see if he could get through Q-school and earn his card. Its a great story and addresses the core of this question.
7/7/10
 
Birdie King says:
Pros know how to score better ! The difference in the swings may not be that much different but golf is a game that takes certain gameing skills. Pros have mastered the game of golf to a different level. They would use their skills on any course and shoot better than an amature. The best thing going for the amature is anything can happen in 1 round of golf.
7/7/10
 
jwilder78 says:
Great article, Matt. It doesn't really matter that most people seem to disagree with your thesis, I think it was excellent food for thought.

@sepfeiff, I know exactly which article you're talking about, but that link didn't work for me. If I recall correctly, it was in the Washington Post last year. It was about an average pro, I don't remember his name (nowhere near Stricker caliber), playing a neat but crappy local DC course called East Potomac aka Hains Point. He did a lot of complaining about course conditions (which as Matt pointed out, we have to deal with all the time), started slow, but still ended up shooting several under par.
7/7/10
 
jwilder78 says:
Oops, OK, I cut and pasted your link and it didn't work, but the actual link itself was good, I just needed to click on it!

Here's the expanded link:
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20

OK, now I remember, it was Steve Marino (who is far better than average, actually), and he shot a 68.
7/7/10
 
jwilder78 says:
Sorry for yet another post, I see now that oobgolf truncates hyperlinks in posts but preserves the link itself. I'm done for the day...
7/7/10
 
jmm193 says:
I'll tell you how good the pros are. I walked with the Champions tour as a volunteer the last year they played in my home town and they played on a public course that I've played several times. From the tips they complained about how short the course was and nearly all of the competitors were under par for the tournament. While I feel that many amateurs think they could go pro if they dedicated their life to the sport, I believe that it takes more dedication and skill than most are willing/able to muster. I like the article but after experiencing the game at the professional level up close and seeing the great divide between our games I have to disagree with you.
7/7/10
 
preny says:
when the pressure's off, top-30 players have the ability to break 60 even on the lightning fast greens they will be playing that same week. they wouldn't just break par - they'd embarass any local golf course, especially if we're talking about a long-hitter on normal back tees.
7/7/10
 
tfarrell826 says:
This article is laughable. The general measuring stick for potential to *think* about a pro career is being a +6 or so at your home course. At Tom Coyne says in his "golfers pyramid", scratch is sh!t. Link here, cannot copy/paste.

books.google.com/books?id=_CygM0uxpoMC&pg=PA51&l
7/7/10
 
dpoimboeuf says:
I think this is a ridiculous concept. I read somewhere recently that a Scratch Golfer is closer to a 10 hcp than a top level pro. Tiger's Index is like +9. Phil played a round recently on an "average golf course" and shot 58.

These guys are playing courses that are 500-1000 yards longer than what most folks on OOB are playing. That's 30-60 yards per hole longer. So I would challenge any scratch guy on OOB to hit his tee ball, then back up 40 yards for all his approaches and see what his score would be.

If the premise is that a scratch guy, given years to practice and all the trappings that a tour pro gets, could elevate his game to a high level... Then yes, it could be done.

If the notion is that if you put a tour pro on a 6500 yard course vs. a scratch amateur for 4 rounds that the scores would be close... Keep dreaming. The tour pro would anihilate the scratch guy. Not only that, but if you put a 10 handicap in the same group, after 4 rounds, the scratch guys score would be closer to the 10
7/7/10
 
dpoimboeuf says:
The thing to remember about a 0 handicap is that the 0 represents .96% of the 10 best of his last 20 scores. So his scoring average for all rounds is likely 75. A tour pro's scoring average for "average courses" would probably be 68.
7/7/10
 
coojofresh says:
pressure & mental toughness is a load of crap. i agree. give me a shooting coach & great doctors & i will be on an nba team.
7/7/10
 
robbie.dejarnette says:
I played behind Phil at La Jolla GC once and he shot a 61 AND played 17 (par 5) and 18 (long, uphill par 4) with a PW and shot bogey/par, respectively. It was my third time playing and I shot a 92 with most of my strokes being within 50 yards of the green (I know, practive my short game more!). But I NEVER could make the shots Phil was making! 125 out and sticks it within a foot with basically a lob wedge. Plus, 16 plays 184 from the Blacks, uphill usually with a swirling wind over the green and he hits... an 8 iron! I'm hitting a soft 5W or full 3H! Ridiculous! I don't care if they know the course or not, Pros will break par on any muni course...easily!
7/7/10
 
robbie.dejarnette says:
Oh, Phil bogeyed 17 because he putted with his wedge with the flag still in and made it!
7/7/10
 
brianshaffer32 says:
After reading the Marino article I think the better question would be, how well could a Scratch guy play on a Pro Setup course... Playing from tight lies in the fairway, deep rough, and concrete greens. I don't believe length would come in to play for most scratch guys as they prly average 270+ anyways
7/8/10
 
bacination says:
The scorecard doesn't say what club you use to hit 184 yards... that being said, that is a helluva hard 8 iron. Id say if I swung for the fences I could hit mine 160-165... but If I had clubs specially grooved with the perfect loading shafts, etc, etc. I could probably squeeze out another 7 yards... which goes to the point of some other posts, its the scoring, accuracy and mental game that makes them good... the swings aren't appreciably different.
7/8/10
 
bacination says:
Brian shaffer, I agree with you. The difference in distance probably only comes into play on par 5s and a few par 4s. Not hitting par 5s in two very often, forcing you to make birdie the old fashioned way... by putting.
7/8/10
 
Brutus says:
When I was growing up I worked on a private A.W. Tillinghast golf course for my uncle - he is the pro there. Raymond Floyd came to play the course because his friend was a member. My uncle, the pro shot 70. Floyd, having never played the course, shot 68. Over the years a few other touring pros came to the course. Jay Sigel, Ted Tryba, Jim Thorpe and a few more. They all shot sub-70. Tryba set the course record 63 his first time out. If any of them had a chance to learn the course who knows how low they could go. They are THAT good. Also, they were all playing just for fun - in competition they turn on the switch. Awesome local golfer vs. Pro = no contest. I have witnessed it.
7/8/10
 
GolfGeek69 says:
Great posts. After reading all of it, all I can say is.... go watch the pros in person at a tournament and you will see the difference. ;)
7/9/10
 
windmedia says:
Last year, I got my chance to attend my first two events: 3m Champion's tour event and the PGA Championship. I have also played with a couple of the top amateurs in the area. There IS a different sound in the ball coming off the tour players club. I cannot explain it or quantify it, but it was shocking when I heard the tee shots on the first tee that Saturday morning at the 3M.
7/10/10
 
windmedia says:
I also saw this snippet in a Forbes Article on ShotLink:

"Wharton demonstrated that pro golfers are more risk-avoidant than the average population."

I think it is less "knowing how to score" and more "knowing how to avoid scoring too much!" :)
7/10/10
 
daytripper says:
I agree with Matt. I think any scratch golfer, meaning they'd be able to shoot par at most courses in their area is capable to become a pga pro. However ther are other obstacles other than pure ability. It's $$$$$$. You'd need to be sponsored unless you are part of the elite where it did not matter in having to win in a time constraint depending on one's finances. And even if you did get a pga card, would you have to be on some kind of waiting list to even be able to play a tournament? Travel expenses, caddy expenses, still an elitist game...

IMHO pga tour pros could shoot a couple under par on regular laid out courses only for the fact that they hit it so far and straight. But the greens at a regular course would not have rolled flat greensand soft conditions as tournament play , so that could limit their blistering a course.

A case in point, a bunch of pga tour pros couldn't make the cut for the last US Open ... so there...
8/15/10
 
mossgaboss says:
A friend of mine I went to high school with made the tour....the "big boy" tour as he called it. He was able to stay 6 months. It was all in the 5-6" space between his ears. Yes he was a great golfer....no he didn't have the mental capacity to hang with the big boys. At home....on any course....not just one he plays every day he shoots between 61 and 69 pretty much daily. He says the courses that are played on tour are a different animal.....look at Pebble and Whistling Straits. Most of us would not even make it through the round from the championship tees on courses like that.....so how good are they really????? really really good....and remember....everybody has good and bad days.
8/20/10
 
H Head says:
Three years ago I rode around with 2 guys at my course who were HOOTERS TOUR players practicing for the upcoming season.. I did not play, but asked them if they would mind if I tagged along, and 'help' them as they had never sen the course before. They played from the tips which are about 6800 yds. They made a joke of the course...scoring 64, 65 with unbelievable ease. Every par 5 was a drive and a mid to short iron...every par 4 was a drive and a flip whatever. It was amazing to watch.....and these guys were just HOOTERS players...I asked the one guy about the Nationwide Tour...he laughed and said he needs to get a lot better just to compete out there, let alone win!!!!!!!
12/14/10
 
RLDIII says:
I am a scratch player for the last 10 years (not bragging)and have been lucky enough to play with Brendon Steele while he was a Nationwide tour player and Roberto Castro while he was a Hooters tour guy. They are amazing! All of the #200-1000 in the WORLD are amazing and they are not on THE TOUR. Scratch golfers are not in their ballpark. It's not even close. My scoring average at my home club (100 rounds in 2012) was 73.2 and any Tour pro would score 65 and lower there every day of the week if given the chance. Steve Marino has played at another 6,700 yard track nearby and literally calls it a "pitch & putt". The examples of "tour guys" destroying scratch golfers is endless. Let's talk about how good they are, shall we? They are SO GOOD, scratch golfers cannot even comprehend that level of consistent golf. There's a thing we say when someone in our group hits a great shot, THAT'S TOUR GOOD! Four scratch golfers may have ten shots like that in an entire round of 18 holes. Enough Said.
2/20/13
 
RikkyAlexander says:
They're are some really good points here but your only downfall is when you say a top touring pro like steve stricker would shoot +2 round a local course, at best maybe around par. How often do you see him shoot scores worse than that on the professional courses, very rarely! If steve stricker played a local course he would be minimum 7 or 8 under par and on a good day quite a few better, these guys are THAT good!
3/10/14
 
hunter hurst says:
pro golfers are pampered full stop.every thing that can be in their favour is in their favour.for a start off they have bill boards to stop them going oob,and cables to slow balls down and stop their balls and slow them down when off line.they get free drops from bill boards nearer the hole,the have spotters to find their balls they have the crowd to stop them going oob they have the crowd search for their balls in the rough, they have a caddy to give imfo for them carry the bag and keep equipment dry and clean and give yardages for them read putts what ever they are looked after to the hilt.i would like to see a tournament where they carry own clubs ,pick out own yardages, have no spotters to find their balls, no crowd to keep their golf balls in play no one to search for their wild shots no bill boards to claim free drops no ads boards to claim line of site drops no trampled down rough by the crowd no cables to stop their ballsrolling into trouble no deflections of the crowd to keep their ball in play.
7/15/14
 
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