nocurling says:
wedge guy,

do you feel that this pattern would hold regardless of manufacturer? if not, wouldn't it be to one mfgr's benefit to tout their blades as being 'more accurate'?

just a thought,
nocurling

nocurling says:
sorry, i meant to add...

"by showing the dispersal pattern and challenging others to beat it".

nocurling

DeepRough says:
I picked up a set of Mizuno MP-33's and am loving every moment of it. I had always played cavity back/game improvement irons. I absolutely love the feel of the MP-33's, and know immediately if I have done something wrong. We'll see how more scores respond soon enough :)

Artful Golfer says:
You've opened my eyes! I've been playing 2 years and have gone with a set of used ping zing2's. I've gotten my index down under 4 already and was convinced I should stick w/ my forgiving pings. I may now reconsider.

wedgeguy says:
Good comments, guys. I think Sean will be amazed at how good his best shots are with the MP-33s, and how acceptable his misses are, to his surprise, probably. As for "nocurling", I think this truism would hold for most any top quality blades, as compared to cavity back irons. Like you, I find it quite interesting that no manufacturer touts the pinpoint accuracy of blades over cavity backs, and the only reason I can think of is that they do not believe they can make a dent in the mindset that perimeter weighting is the be-all, end-all that is pushed on the golfing public.

John Richardson says:
Another great post and a fascinating insight into some of the science behind it.

When I was learning I bought a set of game improvement Mx 17s which were a great choice. But as present to myself when I completed my par round I bought a set of forged Mp 30s. I love them but still slightly regret not going the full blade route. I bought an Mp 37 2 iron as a club for the range and I love it.

To most golfers it is almost impossible to hit but that is purely a perception thing. It forces me to work hard and hit the shot as cleanly and purely as possible. Undoubtedly it has improved my game. I may very well just see if I can do a ebay swap and change over the full set.

David DeVaughn says:
This was the most sensible thing that I have read about golf equipment ever - and something that I have found out myself testing clubs (wasting time and money) over the last few years. For me, blades are a game improvement iron. No distance or directional control with cavity backs - too much time in the rough behind the green or in the sand traps. I would rather be short because of a toe hit than in a bunker. Thanks you!!!

wedgeguy says:
Thanks for letting me know I'm giving you guys some interesting and useful information. I've always thought that there is a big difference between "shot improvement" and "game improvement". Perimeter weighting can improve an individual shot, but you both are right that they will not guide you to improve the quality of contact, as the feedback just isn't there. Your idea about having a blade iron for practice is interesting, but I might add that it could be a 5- or 6-iron instead of a 2, and be a little more helpful for most.

Mike McEvoy says:
THANK YOU!!!! I began playing golf a little less than a year ago, and I learned this lesson the hard way. At last count, I had over 75 clubs in my house. I had tried everything I could to improve my golf game, but the best move I made yet was to buy an old set of Walter Hagen Ultra blade irons. Grooving my swing with those actually worked! (Try that with your Ping G5's! I did, and it didn't work.)

I am really glad to see someone advocating this position, even though it goes against "conventional wisdom."

Now, just say that a beginner should have blades as their first set and you'll be my hero!

Again, THANK YOU!

Mike says:
Terry,

I play Ping I3 Blades. Minimal offset, etc.

What would I or what could I gain by using a real blade iron set ?

wedgeguy says:
Mike, The Ping I3 is about as much a blade as the new square drivers are "traditional in shape". This iron design has most of the weight in the perimeter, and therefore cannot offer the shotmaking performance and feel of a true muscle back blade. What you'd gain by using a "real" blade set is a much more solid feel of impact, more consistent distances on your good shots, and more ability to work the ball flight, both vertically and horizontally. Try something like the new Mizuno MP 32 if you want to see for yourself. There are fitting carts on those everywhere.

wedgeguy says:
Gee, Mike (McEvoy, how can I pass up an opportunity like that? Once you develop the ability to make resonably consistent contact, any beginning golfer could benefit from hitting shots with blades, at least during practice sessions. They'll give you more feedback from contact with the ball, and guide you to better swings. How's that?

Mike McEvoy says:
Ah, Terry, you're a man after my own heart. (Sigh).
Actually, I've never really gotten the whole "different clubs to practice with than what I play" concept. For me, it works better to use the same set consistently. After all, aren't we kind of practicing on the course, too? Just my 2 cents. Also, if I'm practicing with blades, I know what shot (hopefully) I will hit. If I switch clubs, who knows how the ball will fly?
Disclaimer: If you don't care about getting better at golf, but just like getting out on the course, save yourself the frustration of blades. :)

Mike says:
Thanks Terry.

I'll look for a set to demo.

DeepRough says:
Terry you are right on, my best shots are amazing and feel so wonderful..and the misses (unless I'm completely off my game) aren't so awful...at least not significantly worse than my misses were with my older game improvement irons.

John B says:
I suspect that for the one to two percent of golfers whose games are scratch or close to it, blades are the better choice for an iron.

For the other 98% of us, the golfers who can't work a shot, can't practice 5-7 days a week, who shoot in the 90's (me) or worse or better, we need all of the help that we can get with cavity backs. The majority of golfers don't have a 'consistent swing' and don't hit the ball dead center every time...we just don't have the time to hone our games.

I wonder how many potential long-term golfers have given up the game throughout the years by playing blade irons and just saying 'to hell with it' in frustration. I know several golfers who have come back to the game after many years and now enjoy themselves due to the benefits of club technology...the game is easier (by a small measure, anyhow) for us.

Benefits like cavity backs and large driver heads are technological benefiots for the average golfer...the guy who shoots 80 or 90 or 100+.

Technology in golf is why we still don't play with hickory shafts and gutta balls.

wedgeguy says:
John: First, I agree that technology is a wonderful thing in golf, and we push it hard at EIDOLON. And that blades are not for everyone; those who do not ever wish to "work" the golf ball should not use them. I do however, think your percentages are quite off. In my experience, most golfers who shoot in the 80s and below are trying to "hit golf shots", rather than just hit away. They also are hitting their short irons too high to be consistent in distance and accuracy. That's why I wrote this post. Our modern blades are not "throwbacks" -- quite the opposite. We are making them better than ever before as much as we are drivers and cavity back irons, hybrids, etc. My point is that once a golfer hits a certain plateau with his or her iron play, trying blades might prove to be a surprise for them. The industry has spent hundreds of millions of dollars telling us blades are hard to hit, and pushing perimeter weighting as the solution. But they've overdone it in my opinion. Read these posts and you'll see that many golfers are finding that I have a point. But you do as well. No golfer should refuse to take advantage of the technology available, and thankfully, there is a lot to choose from.

Brian P Green says:
I was just hip deep in this argument with my buddies today. I bought the MP33's when they first came out based on the theory that I would get instant feedback on mishits and improve my golf swing. It worked like a charm and I dropped 15 strokes in a year.

wedgeguy says:
Brian, congratulations on discovering one of the "secrets" that major equipment companies might not want us to know. Can you share with all of us what your scores were like before the switch, and where they are now, and what other thing besides switching to blades you were doing to improve? Thanks.

Brian P Green says:
Mid 80's to high 90's before. Mid to 70's to low 80's now depending on the time of year. I'm in the northwest so I'm pretty rusty in the spring. If I'd put some time in on my short game I could drop a few more strokes.

Mike McEvoy says:
I'm still a newbie (picked the game up last June), but I can definitely tell a difference in my game since I began using blades. I was able to break 100 in my game rather quickly, but my average score was closer to 105 or 110 for several months. I could write 95 on the scorecard after some rounds, but that was generous with gimmes and mulligans. Now, after practicing regularly and really spending some time trying to improve, I broke 90 for the first time (legitimately) last week, followed it up with a 77 on a par 61 executive course, and shot 90 on a par 70 (my home course) twice in the last week. All legit scores, too - no gimmes, no mulligans.
My swing is much more consistent, though I still have a lot of work to do. I still get the occasional lost ball or water ball, but I could gain the most strokes around the green chipping and putting. Using blade irons has definitely given me more and better control on my long shots. Also, when I mishit the ball, which is not terribly infrequent, I know immediately how I mishit it. Therefore, I can immediately say, "Why did I hit it off the toe so badly?" I tried that recently with a Mizuno MX-17 (which is a VERY well-made club), but I couldn't feel my hits at all. That's the big difference to me. Blades are a much better teaching tool BY FAR. Also, having watched my shots closely at the range, I'm not sure blades are so unforgiving as everyone says. Sure, when you hit the middle, it's sweet, but I can miss the sweet spot by 1/2" and still get 90%+ of my desired power and my desired ball flight. All in all, I've improved 15 to 20 strokes in the last 3 or 4 months since I made the switch.

By the way, if you're interested in blades but don't like that Nikes, Mizunos, etc... cost upwards of $700, try the Snake Eyes 600B. It costs $30/head, plus your shaft and grip, or $60/club assembled from GolfSmith, and I think its quality is as good as or better than the name brands.

wedgeguy says:
Congratulations to Mike McEvoy for his dramatic improvement and lesson learned. And there are lots of places to buy blades that are reasonably priced. I highly recommend a visit to a qualified custom clubmaker for this purchase. You can find a good registry of them at www.proclubmakers.org, the site for the Professional Clubmakers Society.

Tim says:
I'm looking for some new clubs and have been really intriqued by this discussion. I currently own a pair of square two clubs that I purchased very cheap just to update my Walmart clubs. I had intended to buy some ping i-3 + that I've been told are somewhat between blades and oversized cavity back clubs. I can shoot mid 80's to low 90's fairly consistently, but I really would like to improve my game. I just figured that would be the next evolution in my game and that blades would be too difficult for me to hit. I actually took a friend's blades out on the course one day for 9 holes and gave up. Guess that was not the best place to try them out. Can you recommend a direction as far as clubs that might be a good fit for me? There seem to be so many options and every sellsman seems to just care about selling me something and is not so interested in helping my game. I know you've mentioned that blades are made better now and I want to make sure I get the latest technology if I am to spend $500-$600 on a new set of clubs. OH, and I did want to mention that I bought the CG-10 wedges a while back and have learned to hit them great. Knowing so little about equipment, I never thought about the fact I'm hitting that sandwedge blade from the fairly 100 yards very well. I guess I could afford to do the same with the rest of my clubs??

Mike McEvoy says:
Tim,

Here are a number of options you can try:
1. Buy a cheap set of blade irons from eBay. The ones I really liked were late 1970's Walter Hagen Ultras. This should cost you no more than $40 for the set.
2. Get GolfSmith to build you one (1) of their 600B blade irons. Probably the 6 iron is best. Then go to the practice range for a while and test it out. This will cost you $60 if they assemble it for you. You can save $10-$15 if you assemble it yourself, plus it's fun to build clubs!
3. Buy a used 2 iron blade from GolfSmith (can you tell I shop there a lot?). This should run you $6 to $10.
4. Buy a single assembled club from GigaGolf.com. Again, a 6 iron is probably the best practice. This should cost about $40. I haven't had a chance to check out GigaGolf's blades, but I played some Ping G5 clones of theirs that were very good quality.

Speaking from experience, it WILL be frustrating if you make the switch "cold turkey" and begin playing blades exclusively immediately.
Good luck! I really hope you get some true "game improvement" irons - ones that will expose your flaws and help you fix them!

Tim says:
Thanks Mike! I'm open to any other ideas from more experienced golfers as well!

Alex Elia says:
I googled blades versus cavity backs and found this interesting article which confirmed what I always thought. Blades are the real thing and definitely reward a good ball strike in a more honest way than cavity irons. Also cavity irons have that hollow, lighter feel on impact. One question though. You mentioned that with new technology that blades would be good for more people today. I'm using my father old and I mean old Spalding elite irons. I remember when i was a kid these were considered top of the line clubs and many a pro has told me i should never get rid of them. How much different can one blade be from the other when there just a solid flat piece of metal and do you still consider these as good as more recent blade irons ?

wedgeguy says:
Alex, I would love to see that article, as this topic has generated much input -- thanks to all. When I talked about new technology in blades, what I was referring were two things -- the weight distribution and sole design. Many of the old blades have a very long hosel and therefore a center of mass that is not in the center of the face, but toward the hosel -- very dangerous!!! (Think the "S" word). Many of those old blades also had negative bounce in the sole which makes them very difficult to get back up and out of the turf. Then, there are some subtle improvements in blades wherein a modest amount of metal is repositioned toward the toe, making them more forgiving, without sacrificing the pinpoint accuracy on dead center hits that blades are noted for. Thanks for chiming into this conversation.

Gavin Chia says:
Where have I been. Just came across this article. I've been playing cavity backs for years. I started with my Dad's old Maxfli Australian Blades (the clubs are 5 years younger than I) Switched to cavity backs and have been playing them since. Now the cavity backs are nice and forgiving but I really missed the feel of the blades(on the good shots) Every time I ask about blades at the golf shop, I get a lecture about not getting the ball up in the air and stuff like that. I tried out my buddy's Mizuno MP32's. They felt good, they looked good and the ball was going where I wanted it too. Well 8 times out of 10. But hey I can live with that. Thanks Terry my next set will be blades. And iff my games goes south later, I can always whip out the cavity backs right.

Bad day on the golf course beat a good day in the office anytime.

wedgeguy says:
This has been one of our most active subjects, and its encouraging to me that so many are not following the industry lockstep about cavity back irons. For Gavin, I will tell you that the MP32 is a very nice iron, as are most Mizuno blades. The modern blades are much easier to hit than the old Australian designs of 20-40 years ago, I assure you. And some have modest redistribution of mass that makes them more forgiving of slight mis-hits. I hold by my assessment that most golfers of 12 handicap or less will improve their scoring and shotmaking by playing such a design, especially in the short irons.

Dave Shaffer says:
Has Mizuno made a better blade than the MP-32?

I've decided to eliminate my 4 iron and PW with my MP set. The 3 iron was already gone. I'm going to go with the 4 Eidolon wedges so I had to eliminate a club and the one least used, if ever, was the 4-iron.

Dave

wedgeguy says:
Dave, thank you for your confidence in EIDOLON wedges. Let me offer you a couple of pieces of input.

First, on the "better than MP-32", that's kind of subjective. All their MP models are pretty darn good, it's just which one suits you best. I would hit all of them, on the course, to see what works for your game. And you should definitely make sure whichever you choose is fitted for lie angle and grip size.

Regarding eliminating the 4-iron, that's a personal decision, but here's what I recently did when I decided to add the 60 to my bag. I reviewed all my longer clubs for gaps that were really not all that far apart. After this analysis, I dropped the 3 and 4 woods, and replaced them with a stronger 4, which is about 10-12 yards longer. I don't hit 3-woods at greens anyway, and I'm totally comfortable hitting a gripped down driver for accuracy from the tee. Then I replaced my Nickent hybrid with a Sonartec that was stronger and longer by about 10 yards. So now I have a nice 15-17 yard gap between my 4-wood and hybrid. Gripping down 1/2" cuts that in half. Then I had my clubmaker lengthen my 4-iron by 1/4", giving me a few extra yards, so that the gap between my hybrid and 4, and my 4 and 5-irons are also about 15 yards. Voila -- I had room for the 4th wedge and didn't lose a beat.

Dave Shaffer says:
Thanks Terry, you've given me a lot of variables to think about.

Looking forward to your book.

We are in an oppressive heat spell right now that makes golf tough here in Tennessee. It was 102 yesterday and that's hot for this part of the country. 104* today.

Thanks again.

Dave

Pete K. says:
I just came across this discussion, and thought it quite helpful. I just started playing golf about 5 months ago. I purchased a knockoff big bertha set from gigagolf.com, and they've served their purpose. I get to go to the range and hit balls everyday, so i've been able to improve my scores from not even being able to finish a round (Due to frustrations and embarassment) to consistently shooting in the high 80's to low 90's. I want to spend some real money on a set now, I love the game and just enjoy practicing so much. However if i'm going to spend towards a 1,000 dollars for a set of Irons, i'd like to get a set i'm not going to grow (game wise) out of in a year. Should I purchase a set of blades (Any recommendations would be nice) and just practice like I have been until I can hit them confidently? Or should I just get something like the X-20 Tours that still offer a lot of forgiveness but some playability. I do enjoy trying to draw/fade the ball. Any help would be great before I make this purchase.

wedgeguy says:
Pete, not to sound like a broken record, but a trip to a qualified clubmaker would be a great experience for you. Besides learning about your own personal specs, you can view a number of head designs. There are some great new blades on the market, but if they don't fit you, you'll be wasting your money. If you like to work the ball, I think you'll find any of the modern blades to your liking.

MrKadash says:
What an interesting subject. Here's my story. My dad purchased a set of Titleist Tour Model blades for me new in 1987 when I was a senior in H.S. My game was respectable as my handicap fluctuated from 10 -14 until around 2002, when I decided to switch to brand new Cleveland cavity backs. Interestingly enough, my handicap went down 2 strokes on average as I have been an 8 since then. Well, this year I decided to go back to my old Titleist Tour's and have shot some of the lowest rounds in my life. I don't really know exactly why, but I just realized how much more fun it is for me to play with blades. I have been hitting blade demo's now (mostly Mizuno) as I plan on upgrading to a more current set. Ultimately, however, I truly believe cavity backs are the best for the weekend golfer...

Pete K. says:
Well I pulled the trigger on a set of Mizuno MP-60's. They aren't your typical blade, but they are loaded with feedback (when compared to my other cavity back irons). Man have these exposed my flaws, you really don't understand how much having such a wide sole helps with fat shots until you try a blade style club out. The feeling of connecting right with these clubs is so addictive. It makes having to completely re-train my swing worth it. Thanks for starting this discussion.

Torque says:
Hi Terry. First, great discussion! After a long hiatus I began playing again approximately a year ago. In the past year I have played Taylor made R5's, Hogan Egde CFT's, and Hogan Apex Edge Forged Irons. I am scoring consistently in the low 90's on courses such as TPC Avenel, Raspberry Falls, Westfields, etc. I recently have been playing a Hogan Apex Edge 2 iron in place of a driver in many instances. I have also purchased a set of 2006 Hogan Apex blades with Rifle 6.0 shafts. I read a blog with respect to blades vs. everything else and the mid to low handicappers all arrived at the same conclusion: blades changed their perceptions of their games and helped engrain their swing mechanics. After reading the aforementioned blog I decided to take the blades out to the range and practice a bit. In between shots I contemplated the magnified feedback I was receiving from the blades. Thre was no dullness in ball contact. Also, the feedback was immediate and Iwas keenly aware of the amount of "forgiveness". I was surprised at not only how consistently better my ball sriking was but also the accuracy of my shots. My shots were within relative distance of my cav-backs but the flight and most important to me, had more character. This was because of a number of things in my opinion. For one, the blade is much more exact with respect to the sole at address in terms of setting up (at least for me). In addition, the blade top line is much more appealing at address givin me more confidence. The entire club felt more as an extention of myself as opposed to something I was attempting to manipulate...I saved that for the ball. After about 15-20 minutes I noticed I was more aware of my swing mechanics. I realized so many things I was doing incorrectly. It was enlightening to say the least. My conclusion is that blade irons are "swing improvement" clubs that will improve my game through understanding of my swing mechanics. Time will tell if I can rise to the occassion on the course, but for now my perception of my game and its possibilities is beginning to change. However, from what I have experienced on my own, and watching a couple low handicappers I know as well as attending The Masters, US Open, and other PGA tournaments watching the best play, I believe if a golfer wants to make shots of true character...the blade is it!

wedgeguy says:
This has been a fun string of dialog, and I'm impressed that so many of you are finding what I propose to be true -- more golfers are capable of playing blades than the industry would like you to believe. One way I like to explain it is this: "Cavity-back irons are 'shot-improvement' clubs, but blades are 'game-improvement' clubs."

Only a blade type design can provide the feedback you need to learn, and give you the total control you need to play this game well. My own brother, who is a low single digit player, finally listened to "little brother" and switched from his Callaway irons to a set of Mizunos. He tells me he's hitting more greens than ever, has eliminated his pull hook and never sees those occasional rockets that fly everything.

But understand that modern blades are far superior to the ones of 25-35 years ago. Hosels are shorter and weight is better positioned to make them play much easier. Don't judge blades by the old set of your dad's or grandfather's that is in the garage!

T. Azure says:
I believe there is an alternate explanation for many of the reason people are improving when playing blades.

They are harder to hit. As a result you have to practice more and groove your swing. Your mistakes are magnified and your bad shots are worse.

To explain that the blades are better clubs because you improve your swing when using them is a poor argument. The PERSON is becoming better because of practice and the sudden ephinay that their own swing is the problem... not the club.

That being said, will playing blades make you a better golfer? Not unless you plan to practice and groove your swing. Hitting off-center shots on blades is devastating. Hitting anything above a 5 iron requires a precise and repeatable swing. With practice and lessons, blades can, by default, make your overall game better. To make the conclusion that the CLUBS are the reason is rediculous.

I've grew up playing the game with a set of Titleist Tour Model forged blades. I won't argue with anybody that playing with these from day one made my game better. But I would be taking my game back a step to go back to them.

I don't have the time to practice like I did before. As a result I am now hitting Cobra oversized irons. My off center hits are now playable and vary slightly from my center hits. My scores have dropped about 6-7 strokes after switching from my Mizuno Blades.

I will stick with my opinion that I would rather have 90% of my shots within an acceptable distance to my target, than 50% or less percent within an acceptable distance from my target. Even if 10% of that 50% are right on target, nocking down the flag.

If time allows me to start playing more and practicing more, I'm sure I will switch back to the blades for several reasons. Many of them are the same reasons listed in this blog. No other club can give you the feel of an iron. It is the sweetest feeling hitting a great shot with a blade. The workability is way better and you can get much more creative with knockdown shots, draws and fades. The distance control and ball flight is also much better for a low handicapper. Last, but not least, you can show everybody that you hit blades - because you are a purist and that is what the best golfers play. Isn't that why some of you like them so much?

I like my blades, but my scorecard likes my oversized forgiving Cobra's.

Dave Shaffer says:
I admit I really like the look of blades. I'm a purist. I've actually never played cavity backs although my son has tried to get me to get a set of fusions. I considered it for a little . . . but I just like the flight of the ball with my MP-32s so I'm staying with them. Yes, I do practice daily - at least 100 wedge shots.

Do I hit every shot perfect? Absolutely not! But the ones that I do are very nice to behold as they zero in on the flag.

Is not much of the modern golf equipment designed to help people with bad swings. I play with people all the time who are trying a new Driver - and it works for a round or two. All they really need is a better swing . . . and their OLD Driver.

Dave

Dave Shaffer says:
I've been to few Champions Tour events and it appeard that many of the senior pros use cavity backs as opposd to blades. It would seem that if anyone could use blades to their full potential it would b them.

What is the reason for this apparent discrepency?

Dave

Double Eagle says:
Hi Terry,

I think you passed your epiphany on to me.

Several years back, I was playing Tommy Armour forged irons (before the brand got sold and started appearing on low-end equipment). At the time, I felt like a surgeon with those clubs.

After using them for a few seasons, I broke my 2-iron and couldn't get it replaced and didn't feel like having it reshafted so I just bought new irons.

I ended up with Callaway X-16 Pro cavity backs, but had an injury that kept me from playing for the better part of two years.

This year, I came back and have never regained the precision I had with my Armours. Certainly, not having played for a while, I need to shake off the rust and iron out some swing problems, but what you said really rung a bell.

My bad shots might be a little better, but my good shots are not! I hadn't put it together until now.

I had been intending to get new irons before next season, but now I'm going to be a little more careful in my selection.

Thanks for a great post.

wedgeguy says:
To all,

I'm glad you are all having fun with this post that I wrote way back in April. It's been the most responded to one that I've written. There are so many good insights from all of you into this subject that I tossed out for thinking. That's what this blog is all about!

Let me start with "TAzure"s comments. You are right on with your observation. Blades are not "better clubs", they just have different characteristics. But the facts are that they are more accurate on dead center hits, so any golfer who is more interested in how good his good shots are than how good his average shots are, blades should be given a try. You made the second choice and that's what makes golf so much fun. We have so many choices.

Dave made an interesting observation about the Champions Tour. And the only answer I have, Dave, is "the money". Most of these guys didn't play for the kind of cash that is up on the regular tour now, and my personal experience with them is that they are maximizing their earnings potential. Every company in golf will pay their players more to play their "consumer" models than they will to play their blades, if they even make them. Many of these guys' credo is "show me the money".

Finally, for Double Eagle, would you mind keeping us posted on your findings as you get back into the game?

Thanks guys. You are making this blog a lot of fun, apparently for many of us.

Terry

Double Eagle says:
I'd love to, Terry. I'll drop back in here with my experience with new irons in the spring. I'm also thinking of digging out my Armours for a round or two before the season winds down just to see if my memory is as clear as I think.

TIM K says:
Terry,

Great forum!!
This really cuts through all the advertising BS.

I recently, 2 years ago, returned to golf after 20 year absence less a few scramble tournaments.

My game was mid 90's. I could hit some long and nice shots but could not score.

I began volunteering at a local course and can play for free and practice free. Nice perk for pay.

My game now is all over 80! Shot 78 last week (par 72) and 82 from the back tees Sunday. I am a senior by the way. If I could putt better I would be in the 70's all day. (once I shot an 84 and had 42 putts. Yes half of the shots and backed it up a day later with and 82 and 40 putts)

My concern is the subject of discussion 'blades vs cavity". I have both. Mizuno T Zloid EZ Comps and a set of MP 33's. All used but in good condition, steel stiff shafts all stock.

I would like to go with one style but can play well ( or above average) with each. Note that I just began hitting the blades after playing the cb's. Hit some nice shots with the blades but the mishits are just that, mishits. Short by20%.

Oh I must add, today I wanted to draw a 4 iron as my drive was left edge of the fairway and a large tree did not allow a straight shot to the par 5 green. Well I hit the draw perfect less the 20% of distance. 30 yds from the green, pitched and 2 jputted from 7 feet for par. Great feeling.

Now the critical question is,,, The MP33 are fine but I can acquire a new set of Tommy Armour Silver Scot Muscle Back blades very reasonable. One comment was that the brand had been sold and quality was questionable. Are they top of the line clubs today???

And should I loose the cb's and stick with the blades?

Again Great Forum!!

Tim K

Charlie says:
I'd been through more iron sets in the past decade than I care to admit...playing with various Ping irons more than anything. Just under a year ago I cam by a set of Toski T-54 blades (designed and sold through Golfworks) assembled by a great clubmaker. I have not hit my irons this well in years. Fitting is essential no matter what you choose, but blades are nothing for mid-handicap golfers to shy away from. Don't dismiss "component" blades from Golfworks, Wishon, SMT Golf, etc. Joe Powell blades still have a great reputation and I see them in bags occasionally. In the hands of a good club maker, they are as good as any OEM company's irons.

Stephen says:
Very interesting discussion, and timely since I'm about to buy a new set of irons, courtesy of a nice gift from my mother-in-law (no m-i-l jokes please--she's great). I'm a 13 hcp and of course wanting , and ready, to go lower. I haven't considered blades since switching to cb's a few years ago, after playing in the 70s consisitently in my teens with blades. My last set were Power Bilts. I'm 61 now and want to return to those magic 70s.
One shop around my way has this great 90 day deal where you can return clubs for any reason and get another set , which seems like a great way to try out clubs under course conditions.
What I'm wondering is what about shafts? Graphite or steel? My pro says to go light weight steel but I've got a not so good back and am concerned with the added vibration.
What's your hit on shafts vis a vis blades for someone like me? Is graphite a valid choice for blades?

Stephen

wedgeguy says:
Here's a response to several of you:

Tim K, I hate to pick on anyone, but Tommy Armour has been through questionable (non-golf) ownership several times, and I just don't think they get it -- you can do better.

Charlie, you hit the nail on the head. EVERYONE should avail themselves of a good fitter, and most of these guys can build you a great set of clubs that far surpass what the major brands will feed you off the shelf.

And Stephen, you are on the right track with the idea of graphite in your blades. I'm 55 and recently re-shafted a set of my Reid Lockhart blades with graphite and I'm very satisfied. I chose a high-flex, low launch shaft from Swing Science (the 800), which is not all that light (95 grams), but really feels great. I like the flight pattern and my clubmaker oriented the shafts so that they are perfect. But I would not recommend graphite shafts in irons from any major manufacturer -- have a qualified clubmaker do your work, or you just don't know what you will get. I hate to pick on these guys, but I know what they are turning out, and the consistency of their graphite irons are horrible. Just telling it like it is.

Terry

Paul says:
After goofing around on the golf course as a kid and never really was good at it, I got into golf again a year ago. I started playing some old Hogan Apex PC blades from the mid-80's that were hand me downs from my father-in-law. I played with these for a few months until I kinda got shamed into buying some new clubs from people at our club.

I bought some Navigator cavity backs(generic no name clubs) at a local shop. They looked good and all that. But the funny thing is that they really didn't improve my game at all. So after a year of playing, I got my wife's hand me down Taylor Made Burner oversize irons(she's the serious and better golfer of the two of us). I definitely seemed to improve and I think it was because of a stiffer shaft.

The Navigators turned out to be ladies flex and the Burners are men's senior. After finding out this information I decided to hit the old Hogans because they are stiff flex(I'm 41 year old man and still pretty athletic) and I am hitting some real nice iron shots. So I'm definitely looking at going the blade route. The thing is they are a little rusty and with some nicks and gouges on the face. I am considering re-gripping due to the grips being original but am also wondering about the Mizuno's everybody has been talking about here.

Is it worth sticking with these clubs, or is the newer blade technology far superior to the 80's Hogan Apex PC's?

Pete K. says:
Mizuno Cut-Muscle clubs are much more forgiving without sacrificing the feel. Pick up a players cavity back like the MP 60's or 57's, or if you really have some time to practice get the 67's or 32's.

Paul says:
So does that mean the Hogans aren't worth playing or even regripping? The rust is minor on the 8 iron and the gouges are also pretty minor. The sand wedge is the only club that shows very obvious use and wear and I will definitely replace soon. Is the new Mizuno technology that superior to the Hogans?

Lawrence says:
Amen! I wish I'd found your website much sooner. I had the same epiphany by accident; but struggled for a long time, refusing to believe it was true. I am a 46 year old, poor sportsman, who took up golf a year ago and play to a handicap factor of 30. I tested all the cavity backs from all the major companies and settled on a set of Ping G5 irons and was quite happy with them. A few months ago, during a Mizuno Demo Day at our club, I tried their MX-900 & MX-25 irons as these were their high handicap irons. However, they both came with high flight True Temper Dynalite Gold SL shafts. Because my normal ball flight is already high, I wanted to try the same clubs with True Temper Gold shafts. The Mizuno rep only had this shaft on the MPs. So, I tried the most forgiving MP-60. A few swings later and I was hooked! Wow! Refusing to believe I could already handle clubs like these, I chalked it up to a good swing day. I did start researching the MP-60s on the internet and everything I read said anyone with a handicap higher than 12 has no business using these clubs. Fortunately, our golf shop had a set of MP-60 demos that I could take out on the course. On 4 different occasions, I took out the 7 to PW and kept hitting flagstick after flagstick! My chips and bump & run shots also snuggled up much closer to the hole than usual. I also seemed to hit less fat shots with the MP-60s than my "more forgiving" G5s! This finally gave me the courage to have myself fitted for half a set of MP-60s (7 to PW). I could not be happier with my decision. I alternate playing my Ping G5 and MP-60 just to make sure it's not just my game improving and almost everytime, the spray pattern on my shots is tighter whenever I use the MP-60s. I still struggle to break 100 but have now broken 90 on 2 occasions - both times with the MP-60. Now, I'm considering the MP-57 4 to 6 iron. Initially, I thought I would only go with the 5 and 6 iron as the 4 hybrid I play with is one of my favorite clubs. However, after trying out the MP-57 4 iron, I observe the same tight spray pattern. As I am not very long (4 iron to 165 yards), I use my 4 iron on a lot of approach shots. I would gladly trade a slight loss of distance for accuracy. I still have my 3 hybrid or 5 wood for distance anyhow. Terry, the other thing I've observed is that because my home course is a tree lined course, mishits on my cavity backs just get me further into the trees. When I mishit my MP-60s on the toe (I seldom hit the toe anyhow), they go a shorter distance and this often keeps me from getting into trouble. You have a wonderful website and I sincerely hope more golf newbies get to read it as there are too many who get frustrated and leave the game. More power to you and if you ever need a high handicapper for a guinea pig, I'm ready, willing, and able.

TIM K says:
Hello Everyone,

Guys, go to the next level with your game via forged blades or CBs. You will not go back. Do not listen to those who have warned you that you cannot do well with them. Forged Blades or CBs will make you better!

Terry, during our messages on my question I had to make a decision and went with the Tommy Armour Forged Cavity Back Irons, new Rifle 6.0 shafts, new in the box for $130.00 US.
I have played them 4 or 5 times. I shoot mid to High 80's (par 72). Last week I shot 78. Saturday I shot 78 in a $ tourney and won (a form of handicap is used) 1st team and individual. I had 3 penalty strokes (due to a flying right elbow off the tee box), hit 12 GIR, and had 34 putts. Did I say I love these Irons.

I am aware of TAs recent management problems but they still make a fine forged iron. I have been using a set of used MP33's that are really sweet. But the TA's do not take second place to the Mp's except resale. They both make the game more enjoyable. Even with the harrassment I have to put up with being accussed of sandbagging. These Irons make a difference.

With that, I have had the opportunity to hit several types of clubs and balls. I do not find a measureable difference between like n kind items. IE, 2 piece balls, cast cavity backs, forged clubs etc. But the difference between a cast and a forged club, especially a blade, there is a major difference. The forged Blades or Forged Cavity Backs will make one a better ball striker. Period. I will not go back.

Great Forum and I only hope others will be helped as I have by the information shared. I may not have gone forged without it.

Thanks,
Tim K.

Trent says:
Terry,
I've been playing callaway x-14's for years now and they are, to me, the best cavity backs ever. When I started playing golf, I was shooting 90's. Almost 9 yrs. later, im shooting just over par with some under par rounds (I'll say my handicap is 2). Although I'm just a weekend golfer, my scores have too big a range. I figure it's time to try some blades and see if I can consistently stay par or better. I'm looking to buy some muscle backs and just wondering if you have any suggestions without me demoing any yet. I thought about staying with callaway and trying the x-forged irons, or maybe the titleist 695MB.
Thanks,
Trent

wedgeguy says:
It's amazing and encouraging to me that this post of six months ago still generates this kind of buzz. I have to believe that all of you participating are helping hundreds of golfers figure out this mystery of the golf industry. Let me try to address a few of the recent posts.

For Paul: Yes, the current blade designs are quite a bit superior to the older models. Modern technology allows more precise location of the center of mass, and the slight bit of perimeter/toe weighting of most new models will help.
That all said, some are fashioning cavity backs with a blade-like appearance at address, and this is not what you want. To get the performance I've talked about, the club has to have significant mass/thickness at the center of the impact zone. That's why I'm not a great fan of the Callaway and a few others.

For Tim K, your enthusiasm is exciting, but don't get caught up in the forged/cast debate. The way a club is made is not nearly as important as the distribution of weight. A forged cavity back cannot perform with a quality cast true blade. Many years ago, blind testing was done with tour players, having them hit identical irons, except that one would be cast the other forged. Players like Ray Floyd and others could not tell the difference. Of course that assumes good metallurgy. Our wedges, for example, are cast of 8620 carbon steel and provide extraordinary feel.

Finally, for Trent: If you are a Callaway fan, the X14s would be fine, I'm sure. I'm not. I think Mizuno makes very fine blades, and Titleist, too. There are also some fine component blades by Wishon, Alpha and others that a custom clubmaker can show you. As I've said many times, I'm not a big fan of off-the-shelf irons, and think any serious golfer should have a clubmaker working with him or her.

Thanks, guys. Keep up the dialog -- we're all learning here.

Dave Shaffer says:
Hi, Terry -

You recently made a comment on the Reid Lockhart blades. I'm not familiar with them. Would it be appropriate to comment on them?

Are there reps nationwide that can fit those for you or how would that work?

Thanx.

Dave

Peter Reed says:
Hi,
Iv been playing about 15 years and like a lot of people thought I wasnt good enough for blades. Have used many large headed irons with wide soles etc.. but never really thought I was in control of where the ball would end up. Recently had snake eyes python plus game improvement irons and was same old story. Saw a set of Mizuno pro 2 irons on ebay for -ú60 and as soon as I had these in my hand they felt and looked amazing. You actually feel like you are responsible for your shots...and the great thing is when you hit it well it goes where you aimed it - like an arrow. Its a great feeling. Also I dont even mind slightly mishitting it, because I get that feedback I need to improve further. Even though these clubs are 5 years old I havent yet seen a better looking set (in fact even the new mizunos look too chunky for me!), and there is no way on earth I am going back to cavity backs. I just wish I hadnt wasted 15 years before I realised.

eric nash says:
I have been following this discussion for a couple of months now and am amazed that interest has lasted this long. I wanted to follow-up with my experience and a couple of questions
.
I am a 2-4 round a month golfer with a 2-4 handicap. I hit 845's for 15 years before buying the MP 32's shortly after they came out. I played several rounds with different sets before buying, recommended by retails shops, and course pro's. Including the Nike Slingshot, Callaway's, and Cleveland cavity backs. I have always hit a lot of greens (12-14) and with the Slingshots for example, I feel like I could probably average 15-16 greens - but with little or no ability to 'work the ball' or 'dial it in' to the flag. The MP 32's I compare to shooting a rifle versus a shotgun. I feel I have the ability to hit any type of shot, work the ball easily, and when I am really on knock down several flags a round. Obviously a lot of this is confidence, but a lot is the feel that cannot be duplicated in a cavity back and the feedback that accompanies it. On bad days there is no doubt that hitting a more forgiving club could save me 3-4 shots but on a good day, the MP 32's probably score me 3-4 more birdies. I am no doubt a traditionalist when it comes to the appearance of golf clubs, and if it does not fit my eye, and if I don't have the feel I want, I cant hit them no matter how much they may improve my game, I will never hit cavity backs again.


Question for Terry or anyone else in the manufacturing/retailing business:

It was obvious to me that the 'newest' cavity backs were being pushed by the golf shops and golf pros, I would suspect, but can someone confirm if 1) there is a significantly higher profit margin and lower manufacturing cost for a cast cavity back v/s a forged blade?

I would also suspect that it is a lot harder to get a blade out of a golfer's hand if they are hitting it well than to convince a golfer with last year's Callaway cavity backs that this year's version is more forgiving, longer, and all-around better and they need to buy the new set to improve there game and keep up with the improvement in technology. Just a thought...

eric

wedgeguy says:
Eric, I think you are right about the newer cavity backs. The manufacturers have to keep promising more and more to keep golfers coming to the cash register. The last thing they are going to say is that the blades you are already carrying are best for you. Technically, I don't think the profit margins are that much different, but the purchase frequency could be hurt if golfers really realized that their game will not change much with a new set of irons purchase. And yes, I think it is a lot harder to get a set of blades out of a golfer's bag, because they've become old friends with which he/she is comfortable. The industry thrives on breaking up those "friendships".

Clent Walker says:
Terry, I've been playing for almost 2 1/2 years now. I love the game. I play a old set of Spalding Elite Plus. I love them. Everyone tells me that I should buy some new cavity backs. Well I did, and I've notice that on my mis-hits I was off by 10+ yards, but with my blades on my mis-hits I was only off by 5 to 8 yards. I also keep stats on each club in my bag, and I also noticed that I was getting about 8 to 10 yards with my blades.
Thank for your help on my research.

Paul says:
Hi Terry,

After discovering this thread a while back and going back to my Hogan Apex PC blades I've noticed a few things. First, things have improved so much since re-gripping my clubs. 20 year olds grips just don't work as well as new grips.

Also, when I took them in to have the loft and lie adjusted for my swing I noticed that they seemed to swing a little different. I'm not sure that it is actually for the better, since the clubs lay a little different at address(they look open) and seem to swing slightly different. I'm getting nice ball flight and the fade has given way to straight so I'm not complaining too much, but they just don't feel the same. I like the flight just fine, but it feels like I have to manipulate the club when I swing if that makes any sense. I'm not more than 1 or 2 degrees off of spec. Is this normal when you bend blades or did the guy I had do it not do it correctly?

Thien Nguyen says:
Wow, Terry, you have no idea how glad for me to find this thread. I started out with Cavity Back (CB) iron set (Adams A1 Pro Set). It worked fine for me for almost a year, but one day I saw the Wilson Staff Tour Blade Fluid Feel (from 1986 I think) and I immediately fell in love with the look, the compact design, and the way it sets up behind the ball. I bought it and commit myself to practice and play with it.

The first few rounds with it, my scoring was completely devastated in high 110s. I couldn't judge my distance with my iron (which was my bad, because I never took my time to figure that out). My shots were all over the place. I noticed I lost 15-20 yards on my iron. My swing starts go into 3 swing planes (without realizing it), which I didn't have during my CB set.

For over 6 months, I have been fighting my temptation to switch back to CB set. Even my golf buddies tried to convince me to go back to my CB. I almost gave up, the "buttery feeling" on my good shot with blade has kept me persistent and hard-headed. I kept telling myself "It's not the club, it's the fault in the mechanic of my swing" ...

So, I took my digital camcorder and record my swings on the range and analyze them with Golf Swing V1 with my golf buddies' helps. I found numerous faults in my swing mechanic. I fixed them one by one, starting from over-swing ... I stopped blindly hitting balls at the range, rather I went to range with purposes.

Things have been much better for me now, I'm working my way to low 90s after 2 months process. I understand more about my swing and why things gone wrong. This knowledge allow me to adjust and make a quick fix if necessary on the course.

"The more golf balls you hit, the better you get at golf." - Not really. hitting the golf balls blindly at the range with no purpose is dangerous, you may end up with more bad habits than you bargain for.

"Blades are only for low handicapers" - Not entirely true. Would someone want to learn how to ride a motorcycle with a bicycle? It certainly helps to know how to ride a bicycle prior to the lessons with the motorcycle, but the feels are not the same.

Whatever your purpose is in golf, you gotta choose the right tool for the right purpose. Since shot shaping is important for me blade is my top choice. There is a lot of set back from this switch but the result is rewarding.

wedgeguy says:
Well new grips are always an improvement on any clubs. Grips DO wear, and get dirty. Cleaning with a soft bristle brush and Comet, Ajax or the like usually does wonders. As for your experience after having the lies tweaked, that's a little puzzling to me. And unfortunately, I don't really have an answer for you. The difference in feel could be do to the club making ground contact either in the heel or toe area if the lie is incorrect. As for them laying open, that suggests to me that they are too upright for you, but "the guy" could have bent them wrong for sure.

Paul says:
Actually the difference in feel is in the backswing. It really could just be changes in my swing because I've been getting a lot of tips lately that I've been trying to put into action. When I make contact with the ball and ground it feels fine at that point and it flies very straight with a good trajectory except for my longer irons which I sometimes hook a little. But I attribute that to the fact that I tend to swing different with the longer irons even though I know I shouldn't.

My main concern was that when I'm setting up and put the club on the ground for address, if I'm not gripping it, but have it just laying in my open hand, it will kind of flop open as opposed to the way they were when they were unaltered and they would just sit up. I know that the loft and lies are not to spec anymore and I thought maybe the change in bounce affected this.

Its probably not a big issue because I do hit them better with the scoring irons. The slight fade is gone and I seem to be more accurate. I'm always just trying to "optimize" everything and I was wondering about the change in feel and if it could be attributed to the club laying open.

I hit my friends Mizuno wedge blade the other day and I noticed that his lay open as well at address in the same way mine do. I guess it doesn't matter since I don't swing with my hands in that manner(it'd be pretty difficult without a grip!).

Paul C says:
Hi All,

Thanks you for a very informative discussion. I have hardly played since my mid teens but have seriously re-taken the game up in the last couple of months, after nearly 20 yrs of very occasional hit and laugh. I am still looking to break 100,but working hard at it!

I have been researching cavity backs because I thought I needed the game improvement the manufacturers market so well. My first set was circa 1960 blade hand me downs from my grandfather and the current were a second hand set of forged semi-cavity backs from a friend. This discussion has refocussed my thoughts on clubs that I thought were out of my league, thanks.

Paul

Byron says:
Hi guys,

Great forum..I am a weekender, play to a 14. Inspired, primarily by this discussion to try some blades. Budget is limited tho. Looking for maybe 5 thru AW set of muscle backs. Is it possible to get a set of quality irons made/fitted for under $500 or would it be better to look for a used set on ebay or someother outlet. If the latter, how does one tell which are new enough in design to employ the forgiveness charactaristics mentioned in this forum? Since I am far from expert on clubs and perhaps dont follow the fruition of particular model design, etc.

Any suggestions?

wedgeguy says:
Hello bloggers,

I apologize for being tardy, but was on a whirlwind two week trip to the PCS and PGA Shows in Florida. Watch for some new posts out of that. Now, let me catch up.

Paul, my guess is that when you are setting up these irons, they are "flopping open" because you are setting them on their heel, rather than square to the turf. Maike sure the club is soled properly when you take your grip. If this makes your hands feel too high, a good clubmaker can adjust those lies to fit better.

Paul C, I think you are on the right track to do some serious investigation into what irons are right for you. There are some very good "modified blades" out there now. Keep us posted on your progress.

And Byron, For a good set that you are considering, please visit a good clubmaker/clubfitter. There are some very nice "modern blades" out there from KZG, Wishon, and others, where you can only buy the clubs you need, rather than a full set. That clubmaker can guide you with a technical fitting session.

Thanks, and Happy New Year.

Terry

Julian says:
Blades are the real deal. I am a 17 year old high school player who recently just switched over to blades. The distance control is much easier with blades compared to cavity backs which were extremely sporadic even when hit dead center. I have dropped my handicap from a 6 to a 3 in the past 6 months. Thanks to your eye opening article about the quality of blades.

Thanks, Julian

wedgeguy says:
Julian

I'm glad we could help, and I'd love for you to keep us posted on your progress. I'll bet your golf coach is pleased!!!

Terry

Joe Myer says:
I have to concur with your article. I had been playing with perhaps the ultimate in forgiving clubs Macgregor V-foil M455 which are almost hybrid like. Went on vacation and played with a rental set of Nicklaus N-1 "Bear" muscle back irons. These were a revelation, after a couple of range baskets, went out and shot a 78. This from someone who is usually happy breaking 90. The control and shotmaking ability made me feel like a real player. I later found an identiical set on ebay for $30 bucks (!) and have definitely shaved strokes off my average. Terry, do you know anything about these sticks? They are bladelike but have something of a bar at the rear that is progressively lower in the irons. The shafts say "crankshaft."

Doug H says:
Very interesting Terry. As a mid-high handicapper, I love the idea of going to blades because I really prefer the look at address and feel on good shots of blades. That said, I have used cbs believing my more frequent off-centre shots need more help than my pure ones. My worry is so many comments here are anecdotal (I suspect people with successful results would be relatively more vocal). When was the last time you were able to do scientific testing on the Iron-Byron? Hasn't club manufacturing consistency and quality improved significantly in the past ten to fifteen years (as well as shafts). Have you been able to perform tests or find anything scientific comparing cavity backs and blades made by top manufacturers in the last 2-3 years?

John says:
I have suspected this for a long time. I have played only cb's since I started playing some twenty years ago. I took some years off because I never seemed to get any better, but have recently been bitten by the bug again. I bought some new clubs last year. In the process of buying, no one recommended "players" irons. In fact when I approached the hallowed, for single digit handicap only clubs, I was strongly discouraged. My game was not suited for such a club. The bias and ego or maybe just plain ignorance of others misinformation kept me in the dark. I finally demoed a set of mp 32's. WOW! What a difference. A lowly high handicapper can actually hit the unhittable. A true "game improvement" iron. Don't continue to waste your time and money on cb's because somebody keeps telling you that you don't have the skills to play blades. If you don't play them, you will never aquire the skills. I'm a little bitter about listening to all the low handicap blowhards out there for so long. My bad. Golf is exciting again. Thanks for a great topic.

Paul says:
Hey Doug H, my handicap is in the 18-23 range and I've gone back to playing the blades I originally started with about a year and a half ago when I started really playing golf. They are Hogan PC's from the mid-80's. I actually get a lot of harassment at our club because people are continually telling me that I'm not good enough to be playing blades. But all I know is I hit them more accurately when I do hit them well than I ever have with cavity backs. The distance is much more consistent as well as the piercing trajectory right at the target when I hit them well. Since I've started playing them again, everybody at my club says my swing looks better, yet they don't believe there is any correlation. I'd recommend picking up some on eBay cheap and seeing if you like them at all. Then you can get some of the better new blades that are being made these days if you like the feel. Unlike other people here, I can't say my handicap has gone down much, because my biggest problem is keeping it in play with the driver and woods. Good luck in your quest.

wedgeguy says:
Guys, I have been quiet on this subject, as I don't know that I have a lot more to add that all of you aren't taking care of. The jury is in -- this dialog has been going on for almost a year, and the responses have been overwhelmingly in favor of giving blades a try. Most will be surprised. Thanks for all your input and assistance to other golfers that are asking the question -- "Am I good enough for blades?" The answer is a resounding YES!!!

Terry

Scott Cotter says:
My first set of clubs were a second-hand set of blades. While I am not and may never be a "great player", I still completely love the look and feel of blades. As I am pondering purchasing a new set of iron everybody keeps on trying to steer me towards cavity backs or muscle backs. Who decided that only low handicappers have the wherewithall to hit blades. My next set of clubs (and the set after that, etc.) will be blades.

neil says:
I think that John Richardson (post 6) makes a very good and relevant point. When you hit an improvement club you think that it is easy to hit and consequently tend to chase it abit harder. For most mid handicappers the biggest error they make (and I include myself) is trying to hit too hard. A blade forces you to think about getting the club back to the ball sqaure and on target, to do that you tend to take abit of the shot and hit it clean.

Madcap says:
I have only been playing for 15 months. Started with some hand me downs (knock off ping zings) and recently bought a set of adams a3 0s irons/hybrids. I feel like the clubs really help me get the ball near the green, but I always use my mizuno forged wedge when I get close. I hit it pretty good, so I bought a mp-33 6 iron on ebay for $10. I had bought the club to practice with.... Reading this article makes me feel like I may end up liking it more than I thought

Alex Winnett says:
I have played golf off and on for years but not seriously. The last seven months I have been serious about it. Six months ago I bought a set of super game improvement irons. I thought I was playing well with them. Until one day a good friend that is an accomplished player said with my swing I should be playing blades. I thought he was crazy. However he said that until I play with blades I would never know the feeling of a true golf shot. I gave it some thought and decided to switch to a set of Mizuno MP-67 Irons. He was absolutely right when I hit the sweet spot with them I do not even have to look up I know the results. My theory on this subject now is that cavity backs give you a false sense of security. Because a miss hit that still goes the same distance usually means big trouble around the greens. With a blade a miss hit usually comes up short which is still in the fairway or the approach rather than the bunker or lake beside the green. Blades also encouraged me to work on my swing a little more because they do not lie to you when you are having problems making good square contact. I will never switch back.

KC says:
Great article! I've been playing the game for 10 years. I play to a 15. I have a scratch short game and a 25 handi tee game, unless I use a 3 wood or driver.

I started with a set of Tommy 845's and switched to Mizuno MP-29's the next year. I am an impeccable ball striker and have worn out the sweet spot on my clubs. My iron play is my strength and I stroke my 2 iron very well from nice lies of course. People question my use of blades given my index but shut up quickly when they see me hit them.

I have another revelation that applies to my game that I am confident about. I cannot hit a club that is big and bulky and my hand eye coordination dramatically improves when the instrument at the end of my hands is smaller. I've tried and immediately returned 3 sets of cavity backs over the years and the same thing goes for large headed drivers. Just as golf is a game of counterintuitives (do the opposite as you think to get the intended result), this applies to my club selection.

I put tape of the face of the huge drivers and miss the sweet spot; I put tape on the head of smaller drivers and never miss. I think the larger the club the more area to miss and the smaller the club the more likely contact will be on the sweet spot and backed by the mass of the club.

Nelson Sison says:
stumbled on this thread and read argument that blades don't make you the better player; it's the practice involved. Well I disagree and I have been told that in golf: "practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanent!" Having that thought in mind I ask: "If you don't know what's broke then how can you fix it?" Cavity backs, esp. the oversized ones mask every fault you have from your swing, address, ball - striking and ball position etc that it isn't even funny. Again I ask those who don't believe..."If you don't know what's broke, how can you fix it?" Hint: The answer lies somewhere with the blades!! Get em if your serious about improving. Get cavity backs if you wanna move the ball along so you can hang out with your friends on the golf course.

Doug H says:
Okay everyone - let's not get carried away. If I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of top tour players now who do not use pure blades. I believe the final group at the Masters and eventual Champion both used a form of cavity back. Same with Rocco - remember him? He almost won the US Open using big ol' CBs. They can't all be in it only for the sponsorship money (in fact, I believe Snedeker does not even use his own sponsor's clubs but another company's cavity-backs (Bridgestone sponsor and used Taylor Made r7s)). Before we all jump on the "CBs are evil" bandwagon, I think we should acknowledge a couple of things: (a) top pros are using CBs successfully and keep in mind these are people that practice more than anyone else (ie; the lack of feedback does not appear to be hurting the best players in the world); and (b) the entire impetus to this thread was that CBs are not as consistent - but that was from a test Mr. Koehler did for clubs that were likely made more than 15 years ago - surely the technology for consistency of such CBs has improved. I find it hard to believe the engineers at a club manufacturing company would see those results and then proceed to do nothing about it. No one here has actually shown any evidence of what that same test would look like like for modern CBs made in the last several years. I suspect they are greatly improved based on the increased use by PGA pros and frequency in bags at the top of the leaderboard. Don't misunderstand my motivation here - personally, I am a mid-high handicapper (index ~12) and a big fan of and recent convert to blades. In fact, I just purchased a set of used MP-32s and love hitting them (certainly more than my Taylor Made OS2s!). My thought is that perhaps a person's choice of blades vs. CBs is not as black and white as everyone on this thread suggests. It is more likely that a player's ultimate success may depend on their personality and how they learn and the level of tolerances and subtlety in relation to muscle memory for each person. What is optimal feedback will be different for different people. Either way, I suspect the increased use of CBs by winning PGA pros is evidence that CBs may be much better than originally suggested in this thread. It looks like at least 3 of the top ten ranked players in the world use a form of CB: Ogilvy, Cink, Stricker (Garcia and Rose only for long irons) ... and maybe even 5 if you count Mickelson and Els depending on how you characterize those Callaways Tour irons. I added this because I thought this thread needed a bit of objectivity. All this said, I will continue to play with my newly acquired blades and having more fun than ever with them. But that's just me.

wedgeguy says:
Doug, thanks for the input. As you can see, I wrote this post over a year ago, and it still generates lots of feedback and dialog -- and we like that here. Your comments are right on target in many ways. Some tour players are using more CB like irons, and manufacturers have made lots of progress with blade designs to make them easier to hit without giving up the tack-driving accuracy blades are noted for. What I suggested, and many others have discovered, is that "blades" are not just for the very best ball strikers, and cavity backs are not the panacea that the manufacturers might like us to believe. I want golfers to experiment and challenge conventional beliefs. The posts we've gotten here indicate that they have, and many were pleasantly surprised.
Let's keep up the experimenting, golfers.

C+¬dric says:
Very interesting forum indeed...
My situation is the following: I play titlesit 735 that I like but found out after a fitting session that the shaft was not stiff enough fir my swing speed (which might explain some of the mistakes I make during rounds). So I decided to look for a new set.
2 problems: 1/I don't live in the US and demo clubs are very limited in numbers in Europe and 2/I am 6"5' tall and all demo clubs are standard size
3rd problem now is that not all manufacturers will "build" clubs 1.5" longer like I require.
My first choice was Titleist ZBs but they are only available with +1"(could have a club maker lengthen them for me...). They can do the AP2s for me but I am not that enthusiastic about them...
I checked Mizuno MP-57 and MP-67 that I could get in the right length.
Not a big fan of MP-57 at first look but MP-67 are gorgeous!!! And I couldn't believe how good it was to hit them when I tried them out at a a shop (in a net only for the momment though, not outside!). The feedback was the best I have ever felt with any club (which was too short for me incidentally!!).
So now why not consider the Titleist ZMs??
I am a 5-6 handicapper and know there is no problem for me to hit blades for 6-P... 3,4 and maybe 5 irons are the reason why I'm still not sure. Will I be able to hit them well?? All demo clubs we have here are 6 irons so I cant' really try the longer irons...
Any suggestion on these 4 series:MP-57,MP-67,ZB and ZM?
Any recommendations regrarding my "problem"?
Lucky you golfers in the US, you can try whatever you want, whenever and wherever!!!
Thanks in advance for your help

wedgeguy says:
Cedric,
I appreciate the restricted selection you have outside the U.S., but might I suggest a trip to a good independent clubmaker? I am quite concerned about your assesment that you need clubs 1-1/2" longer than standard because of your height. That is a trend in golf clubs that just doesn't make sense to me, and you won't find that variation on the professional tours, where there are a lot of larger players nowdays. Even tall guys like Ernie Els, Bob Tway and others only play their clubs 1/2" or so over "standard". This game is hard enough without making the equipment more cumbersome. Look at it this way.

The main reason an 8-iron is easier to hit straight than a 5 is that it is 1-1/2" shorter! It doesn't have to do with loft much at all. If you make your irons longer by much, you've just decreased your control of that club. For example, I've always been an advocate of average golfers either tossing the driver altogether or playing one that is 43-44" long at the very most. If tour players can only hit half the fairways with 45" and longer drivers, what chances do we have?

The simple fact is that the closer you are to "your work", the better ballstriking consistency you are going to have. This is a difficult game for larger players, because there are many more places to "put it" than us of more compact build. It's a simple fact that you, at 6'5" cannot copy my posture at 5'7". You have to flex more in the knees, put more tilt in your spine and allow your arms to hang naturally to get into position to make a good golf swing. Watch the tour players and notice the different posture of the tall players from the smaller ones. Compare Ernie Els setup to David Toms, for example. They are not the same.
The simple fact is, Cedric, this is an easier game for us smaller guys, but don't aggravage that disadvantage by playing clubs that are excessively long.

That's my .02 anyway.

Cedric says:
Quick response!!
That measure was actually done by a Pro during a proper fitting session. That's what I've also played in the last 3 years and like it that way. Played +1" before that and that extra .5" made a lot of difference.
I've heard indeed that big dudes like Els don't lengthen their shaft that much. I was also told that my arms are proportionnaly short!!! Maybe the reason for this 1.5"...
Any opinion on MP-67 and ZMs??

Mike McEvoy says:
Terry,

I've followed this post with interest for more than a year. My first post to this topic was 04.16.07 at 8:23 am. Most of the time, I have found your posts to be educated and insightful, but I am simply flabbergasted at your last post.

You said:
"The main reason an 8-iron is easier to hit straight than a 5 is that it is 1-1/2GǦ shorter! It doesnGÇÖt have to do with loft much at all."

Do you really stand by that? That's an absolutely ludicrous statement. I will admit that a shorter club makes for more control (8 iron vs. 5 iron), but the loft also plays a HUGE role in the results, as well.

For instance, try bending a 2 iron shot. I bet you can. I bet you can bend it right or left. Not very difficult, is it? Now, try bending a 60 degree lob wedge shot. Unless you are absolutely crushing the ball, you probably can get much more than a mild draw or fade, even if the ball will spin right or left on the green after it hits. Why is this? Because the LOFT of the 60 degree lob wedge OVERRIDES the potential sidespin from an inaccurate strike. You simply cannot exert a very large amount of sidespin with a highly lofted club. The 2 iron, on the other hand, doesn't have an inordinate amount of backspin, so the club has the ability to put more sidespin on the ball.

Sure, a shorter club gives you a better chance to hit the ball flush and have an initial launch direction that is closer to your target, but club length has NOTHING to do with the spin put on a ball, which (plus wind) is what creates the right/left movement of the shot.

This is why most golf instructors will recommend a high handicapper to tee off with a 3 wood instead of driver. Yes, the length adds control, but the higher loft takes a lot of the bend out of a bad shot.

One other point, though, is that a club which is too short requires a swing that is unnatural and uncomfortable, creating poor results.

To illustrate this in an extreme manner, I have played around with my son's clubs. He's 4. His clubs are tiny. There is no way in h*** I can hit any sort of a consistent shot with his clubs. Everyone would have guessed that intuitively.

My second example, though, is a little bit less obvious, but no less true. I recently went used 3 wood shopping at my local Golfsmith. I tried out about 10 different clubs and finally settled on a Mizuno MP 001 3 wood. 15 degrees of loft, Stiff Mizuno Exsar shaft. The thing stroked smoothly, and it felt like you couldn't mishit the ball. Problem was, it was apparently made for a 5'1" golfer, because it was about the length of my +1" 6 iron.

I loved this thing for about a week, then I realized something was wrong. In the store, I wasn't hitting this club in amongst my other clubs. When I did that, I realized that I had to bend my knees a lot more than usual, and bend more at the hips to get low enough to hit this club. When I stood up to a more normal height, I would slice the crap out of the ball. This makes sense. So, unfortunately, yesterday, the Mizuno went back and I got a standard length Titleist 980F. By the way, I'm 6'2".

The moral of the story? Get fit and trust the measurements. There are standards for a reason, and if Cedric is +1.5", he's +1.5"

Cedric, maybe I can help you. Have you ever gone to Golfsmith's website? It's www.golfsmith.com. On the left hand side of their page, you'll see a list of shopping categories. Instead of going to "Golf Clubs", visit "Golf Clubs - Custom Fit". There, you will find a selection of clubs available to be custom-made. Most of the ones I remember looking at allowed for +1.5", but it'll be really easy for you to find out. Another bonus, is that this system can sort-of allow you to "demo" clubs, because a lot of the manufacturers will allow you to custom order 1 club (and it can be anything from a 2 or 3 iron to the Pitching Wedge). I built my set of MP-60's piecemeal through this system.

Also, www.gigagolf.com is a pretty good site for clone clubs. You can also get clubs custom made, and you can also buy 1 at a time from them. Their selection is limited, but you could find a knock off for a particular club you're interested in and try one of theirs to see whether you want to invest in the full set of the name brand clubs.

Hope this helps!!!

wedgeguy says:
Mike,

That's the kind of in-depth responses I like to see here. There are many opinions on club length, and you make some very good points. As for the statment that length is a determinate factor in consistency, you are right about the spin aspect, but I was referring to the ability to control the club and make solid contact as well as to keep the club on path. My experience with observing most golfers is that they don't sidespin the ball all that much, but the vast majority of poor shots are from inconsistent contact and/or swing path, i.e. pushes and pulls rather than hooks and slices.

I would agree that clubs that are fitted are generally much better, but I also look to the PGA Tour as a "proving ground" for what we can effectively do to a golf club without compromising its qualities. One anecdote that sticks in my mind is an interview with Ernie Els about ten years ago, when the U.S. Open was at Congressional. Els said he had shortened his irons 1/4" so that he would be more accurate to the testing Congressional greens, and to his surprise he also picked up about a half club in distance! My point is that the best players in the world -- from the shortest to tallest -- play their irons pretty close to the same specifications. My theory (and it's just that) is that the "geometry" of golf clubs is not as flexible as we might like to believe. We have seen the shaft length/loft matrix change somewhat over the years, but no one on tour is playing irons very far off the "norm" . . . there's got to be a reason for that. Jeff Sluman's and Ernie Els' irons are not that far apart in specification . . . why? Because that particular length/loft/lie geometry allows the production of certain flight patterns in my opinion. Some swings are more upright, and some flatter, for sure, but no one is proving that excellent golf can be played with clubs that are too far off the center in specifications.

My point is that if you are fitted and it works, go for it. But fitters vary in their skill and experience -- and few are also swing experts. A second and even third opinion is valuable. And realize that swing ills cannot be fixed with fitting. In fact, fitting can trap you in an improper swing path so that immediately you'll see improvement, but you will not have the ability to improve your swing to a more sound technique if the clubs are "in the way". (If that's a goal of yours -- to some it isn't.)

What I love about writing this blog is that we get to share our ideas and experiences, and I encourage this kind of dialog.

Thanks, Mike, for the input.

C+¬dric says:
Thanks Mike!!
Interesting website this www.golfsmith.com
Now I just hqve to figure how to fill in the blanks in terms of measurements as I only know metric measures (apart from my size) but with the help of any online converter, that won't be a problem.
This +1.5" has been measured twice by 2 different club fitters and I feel confortable with my actual clubs that are +1.5"...
So length is not really where my hesitations stand.
I know the swingweight of my clubs will at best be D6 but at 6'5" and 200 lbs, that shouldn't be a problem...
My actual thoughts are Mizuno vs. Titleist, MP-67 vs. ZM/ZB (have heard that Mizuno's forged is the best in terms of quality, but then how come is Luke Donald the only top Pro in contract with Mizuno if the quality is so great?)
Second hesitation is Dynamic Gold Super Lite S300 vs. Rifle Project X 6.0...
Lots of question to be answered and few possibilities to try out those clubs in Europe in the right length.
As you say, always possible to order one club to try out but I'm not sure those 2 brands will allow it. Titleist here are particularly arduous to deal with....

wedgeguy says:
Cedric,

Be cautious when comparing the Dynamic Gold Super Lite S300 and Rifle Project X 6.0. Those are VERY different shafts -- apples and oranges. Make sure you hit several irons with each -- long, mid and short -- before you make the decision of which is better.

C+¬dric says:
Yes I know...
I have to decide which shaft weight I'll go for...
I've tried the Dynamic Gold S300 (same pattern as SL, but heavier) and Rifle. SL was not available for demo.
"normal" dynamic gold will just be too heavy with +1.5"!!

The Chancellor says:
First off. This is the most thoughtful, well mannered exchange I've encountered online. Thanks.
I'm getting back into golf after a lengthy hiatus. I was, (emphasis on WAS) pretty good when I was younger. Not so much now in my 40's. I found a great set of white dot, Ping i2's, cheap, on ebay. Some mid-sized grips later, I'm off. Been playing them since the beginning of the season. I play at least twice a week, (9-holes), hit the range sometimes twice a week. And I've been slowly lowering my scores. (Mid 40's for 9). A few weeks back I hit some practice shots with my instructors Callaway X Forged 6 iron. I instantly understood the terms, "butter" and, "click". As I understand, the feel is mostly due to the forged steel, vs. a cast club. If I am to make the switch... I'm interested in hearing opinions on what clubs to try. Keeping in mind of course, my limited budget. (My wife is extremely understanding of my addictions to motorcycles, and golf. I don't wish to find out just how much understanding she's willing to exercise). Thanks in advance.

wedgeguy says:
Welcome back to the game, Chancellor. And have fun experimenting. As for the difference in feel, it's probably more due to the form of the head and the metal used, not the forged/cast difference. That is one of the most long-lived discussions in the game, and we like it here. But casting itself doesn't make a club harder. After all, every stick of butter in the store is cast!

Byron says:
Hi Chancellor,
A few months back, I posted a similar question and received some very good advice from Terry regarding some budget friendly forged iron options. I bought some new graphite shafted KZG forged CB's off ebay. They deliver the buttery feel your talking about and it is quite intoxicating. Several options from MB, CB and a mixture of both are available in the KZG line. They even offer a mid handicapper option that are a blade type design but a bit larger, although not oversized. I am a 15 handicap. Aside from a bit of aprehension about being in a bit over my head, I bought the low profile forged CB's only because they were new, available and for a 163 smacks including shipping and I figured what the hay. They took a bit of getting used to but I decided to apply the logic suggested in one of these blogs that forged "players" clubs are not as unforgiving as their rep. and even if they are, they will in essence, force you to concentrate more, provide better feedback and ultimately improve your game. Quite frankly, I havent seen a drop or rise in my scores, primarily because of a substandard short game and my schedule only allowing for once a week play. However, for the first time I am able to "work" the ball (mostly on purpose) and I can tell you this, once you start using a forged players iron, game improvement irons will look at address and feel like pancake turners because of their size and bulkiness. Combine that with that feel when you hit it sweet and you will likely not want to go back. I am sure there are other budget friendly options out there, to include some of the used "name" brands but I guess my advice would be, visit kzg.com order one of their irons or puruse ebay, be patient and if you don't get too much money tied up in the process, you will be ahead of the game in terms of what type might suit you. Hope this helps...and good luck.

C+¬dric says:
I have finally ordered a set of MP-67 with a Project X 6.0 shaft.
With my specs, it's not like I'll ever find them on ebay!!!
6 iron will be 39" and I've also reduced the loft of the clubs of 1-¦ to match the lofts I had in my former set...
Will send a new post when I get them!

Mike McEvoy says:
Cedric,

I've toyed with and played a lot of blade irons in the past year and a half. I'd like to hope that I have at least some knowledge to share, so here goes:

Here's a list of all the blades I've tried:

1970's Ben Hogan set
1970's Wilson Staff set
1970's MacGregor set
2007 Snake Eyes 600B set
Early 2000's Mizuno MP-14
Mid 2000's Mizuno MP-33
Mid 2000's Mizuno MP-32
2008 Mizuno MP-60
2008 Mizuno MP-67

My current set is a 2003 TaylorMade TP Pro Combo Set, that has muscleback blades from 7 iron thru 48 degree wedge and slight cavity back irons in the 3 iron thru 6 iron.

To be as honest as I can be, none of the modern sets differ very much in terms of overall feel or performance. Sure, one set will probably fit your eye a little bit better, but any of the ones I've tried have all performed well when struck well, and I've never yet met a golf club that could coax a good ball flight out of a bad swing (even the hybrids I've tried can't do that!).

Why have I gone through so many clubs? I'm a golf gearhead, and I love trying new stuff. I think though, that I've finally settled down with this set. They're beautiful and I absolutely love them. Plus, they're used, so I'm not nearly so mental about dinging or scratching them.

Anyway, what's the point? The point is that the quality of all blades made within the last 5 to 8 years is such that you can find a (used) set on eBay that you like the look of and get them. If they don't fit quite right, or if you don't like them perfectly, sell them back (usually at no noticeable loss of money) and get another set. That way, you can try as much as you want, all at a reasonable price.

By the way, Terry, to get back to the discussion above, I agree with your explanation. Shorter clubs are easier to control (say, 9 iron vs. 3 iron) because of simple physics. There are some problems, though, when you get too short for a particular club vs. your height. See my 3 wood example above. Also, I recently played golf with a guy who was about 6'6 and played standard length clubs. It was painful to watch how far he had to bend over at address to swing a 9 iron. And I'm not sure the short shaft helped him control that club well, because his posture was so out of whack it was amazing he could make contact at all!

My only point above was that comfort in the swing is also a vital component. Plus, it's so easy today to custom fit a set of clubs, why not take advantage of it?

Mike McEvoy says:
Sorry, last post was meant for Chancellor, not Cedric. My bad!

The Chancellor says:
Thanks for the input. I agree. To me, newer forged clubs all have that "feel" at impact. So I suppose, it comes down to personal preference and fitting. Fitting is key. The same suit, off the rack will never fit five different guys the same, (or any of them). Stock lie angle, shaft flex and length, and grip size are a good place to start. But getting clubs dialed in can't be skipped.
As for cast butter. I found it's not very forgiving to my waste-line. And I've never been able to putt with it. At least not on hot days.

Thanks!
The Chnclr

The Chancellor says:
Am I insane to consider Mizuno's MP33's? I found 3-PW, stock, stiff shafts, asking $275. While I haven't seen them, they are advertised as rarely used, and look pretty clean in the photo's? I'll need to have the lie adjusted, mid-size grips, and shafts lengthened. That should run around $170. More to the point... To much blade for the leap from Ping i2's?
Thanks again for the insightful discussion,
Chnclr

wedgeguy says:
You are not insane at all. But realize that the MP33 is not quite as forgiving as the more contemporary blades that are out there. But it is one heckuva fine pure blade design. And not as hard to hit as one might imagine.
Terry

The Chancellor says:
Thanks to everyone for all the input. I found a set of Mp-33's, on Craiglist, 2 degrees up, 1/2 inch longer, new midsize grips. All things I would have done right away. Used at a range once. Only 3 clubs ever hit. Basically new. $250. The seller was a young lawyer, who realized he has no time to play. Enough of a deal to take the chance that they may be too much blade for me. I can always retreat to my Ping's if I hit a bad streak.
Wish me luck. I can't wait to see if a draw will go where I intend it to.

Thanks,
Chnclr

Manclawyer says:
Just spent the past 30 mins reading all the posts! - Great advice, but a little confusing given the vast amount of it!

My question is a pretty simple one. i have been playing for about 15 years to a reasonable standard. Handicap 10/12. On my good days I'm good and on my bad days I'm still ok. I am reasonably accurate with my irons. I have been playing with Mizuno T-Zoids oversized heads for 10 years and feel that I should be looking to change to blades or maybe blade 'types'.

I'm considering the Ping S58, Mizuno MP57, Mizuno MP60 or the Nike csi. Can anyone give me an idiots guide as to the differences between them. Also is the shaft more important than the head?

wedgeguy says:
Given that you are looking at top quality heads, and all of them will serve you fine, the shaft needs special attention. As Mr. Hogan always said, " a club is 90% shaft and 10% how it goes through the dirt." Of course, that was when there was insignificant difference in one company's irons to anothers. But the point is clear -- the shaft is the "engine" of the golf club, and the best heads in the world will be ruined by shafts that are not right for you or mismatched in flex. Give attention there. Again, I highly recommend any serious golfer have a personal clubmaker/fitter to turn to for technical guidance.

Manclawyer says:
Thanks for the prompt response! Would you feel that a trip to my local golf shop would be ok or should I jump in and make a decision on Mizuno and visit their factory for a fitting?

The Chancellor says:
This is just my 2 cents on the high-handicapper-using-blades issue. For the first time, I took my mp-33's to the range today, and never had a better session. After dropping my wedge shots into the same target again and again, I got cocky and attempted drawing and fading with everything from the 3 to the 6 iron. While I have executed the errant draw and fade in the past. I have never hit the same trajectory over and over. A fade was more consistent than the draw, but I've NEVER been able to hit more than one draw consecutively. Yes. I was smiling.
Again. This is only my 2 cents. (Please don't think I'm bragging. I really am a high handicapper). But when driving home, I was considering all the times I was told forged clubs were not for a higher handicapper. Then I realized who always preached this. The salespeople I was potentially buying from. As the saying goes. The worst person to get advice from, is the person you're buying from. I certainly don't believe there is some golf equipment conspiracy. But if the the golf world in general repeats the same mantra enough times, it becomes believable.
Personally, I don't believe my experience today is unique to me. And the exchange of posts here gave me the extra push to take a chance on a set of blades. So I'm just sharing here. But if you are hankering to try some blades, I am willing to speak contrary to the script that salespeople are programed to speak.
Again. Thanks to everyone here who's post I've read and enjoyed. I hope I've added to the dialog in a constructive manner.
The Chnclr

Manclawyer says:
After reading the advice from Terry and reading the posts from Chancellor I went for my fitting today at Nevada Bob's in Wilmslow Cheshire, UK. I was pretty much set on getting the Mizuno MP57 , but was pursuaded to try the MP 60, Ping S58, Taylor Made and the Calaway X Forged. I loved the look of the MP60 behind the ball and felt that I hit it OK, The Ping felt a bit harsh and the launch angle was way too high. I hit the Calaway X Forged and it also felt good, but if I'm honest I did prefer the look and the feel of the MP60.
So you might think that I bought them. However, the very knowledgeable sales guy then showed me the computer stats, and I was surprised to see that despite what my brain had told me (i.e. that I was hitting the MP60's the best, it turned out that the Callaway X Forged was producing the longest shots, with the best launch angle (22 degrees with a 6 iron) The shaft was a projectX 6.0.

My swing speed was around the 87mph mark.

So....................I reluctantly accepted what the salesguy and the computer was telling me and bought the Callaway's!
I notice that Chancellor also hit the Callaways and was impressed!

I was measured for lie and height etc. They recommended that I go for the ProjectX 5.0 instead of the 6.0 as they said it should give me a bit more distance.

I still really feel that I should have bought the Mizuno's as I'm a really big fan and they are renown as the leading manufacturers of forged clubs. But I went with the stats! Had the guy not given me the Callaways to hit I would never have considered them as I have never liked their products! I guess i will soon find out if I made the right decision!

If I could ask a bit of advice here - I hit the test 6 iron consistently between 148 - 155 with the ProjectX 6.0 shaft. The recommended the 5.0 shaft to give me a bit more distance as I was concerened at the loss of distance the the forged clubs were giving me (I normally hit my cavity back 7 iron 155)

I would be really grateful if you guys could give me the benefit of your advice - Have I done the right thing in terms of club and do you think that the shaft change is sensible?

Thanks
Fred

Mike McEvoy says:
I've tried the X-Forged also, and I really liked them. I tend to avoid most Callaway clubs, both because I'm not a fan of Phil (stupid reason, I know) and because I don't tend to hit them well, but the X-Forged are a sweet set. If you liked the way they felt (which apparently you did) and their computer specs were the best, I'd forget about it and deal with owning a really sweet set of clubs.

By the way, about going with 5.0 vs. 6.0, I've never really felt like shaft flex makes that much of a difference. For me, it's always been more about the shaft feel, not the flex.

By the way, who cares about a particular distance with a particular club, as long as it's consistent and you can hit the target better?

As far as I'm concerned, hitting the hole from 150 with a 6 iron is better than being 30 feet long (or short, or wide) from 150 with a 7 iron.

The Chancellor says:
I agree with Mike McEvoy. For me, it doesn't really matter how the lengths of my shot are compared to anyone shots. As long as I know MY bag, and can choose a club to do the job I'm faced with. Today, I took my mp33's to a short 9 hole course, and shot a 4 over. The yardages I noted from the range the day before, held up. It doesn't matter what you need from 140, as long as the club/shot delivers. Today, the distances were predictably executed. I'm not saying I was a surgeon. But I got the job done with a confidence I've never had with my Ping i2's.
Even my wife noticed that my shots were more accurate today. While I totally realize that has absolutely no bearing on anything. I'm going with it, because for tonight, I'm the best golfer in my house.
Fred, Enjoy your investment. Please let us know how your next rounds go.

Thanks,
The Chnclr

Cedric says:
Regarding shaft flex, 87 mph is a 6.0 if you look at this
www.royalprecision.com/precision_steel_projectx.html
I was fitted for a 6.5 but ended up ordering a 6.0, as I was a little concerned it could be too stiff by the end of a round. However, everyone told me that difference between 6.0 and 6.5 was barely noticeable.
Obviously, flex makes a difference (don't quite agree on that matter with what has been written above), try to hit a senior or lady flex and you'll see if it's only about feel!!
I am however surprised with your launch angle recommenadtion manclawyer. 22 degrees with a 6 iron seems like a lot!!! My actual set gives me 19-20 degreens and balls do balloon way too much since my swing has improved so much. Which is the reason why I decided to change my set... The actual recommendation from the guy who did my fitting was around 15 degrees... And he has done fittings for Stenson and others...
Did you try the MP-67? I should get them next week, getting excited!

Mike McEvoy says:
Ced,

Actually, I have played with a bunch of different flexes. In fact, my current set has a driver with a Stiff flex and a 7 wood (no 3 or 5) with a Senior flex. Now, I'm not saying there's NO difference between the 2 flexes, but my point is that I am able to comfortably execute with both clubs. With the 7 wood, I use a much smoother swing, but I am able to work both clubs left and right (somewhat consistently :) ).

I also used to play a driver I made for my dad that he didn't want. It had a senior flex, too. I hit it well, too.

One driver shaft I tried that was Stiff felt like swinging a 2"x4". I replaced it with a regular flex and all was well again.

My point is to say that it's possible to have good success with a flex that isn't the "right" flex for your swing speed. This is, in my humble opinion, much less important than lie angle and club length.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike

wedgeguy says:
This is great stuff, guys. Allow me to add a few comments. Regarding testing and fitting in the store, that's only a start. The clubs need to be taken to the range and course to find out if they are really right. And shafts are not always what they are marked. Be careful there.

As for matching shafts in the set, you would not believe the difference it will make in your game if you do not have to change your swing from club to club. I recently wrote about matching my driver to lob wedge exactly, all using the UST ProForce V2 product. The improvement to consistency was quite noticeable.

Regarding the "loss of distance" with the blades, it is only due to loft changes in cavity backs. The cavity back 7 iron is probably close to the same loft and length as the blade 6, so of course you'd hit them about the same distance.

Thanks for chiming in, guys, and for helping each other out. That's what this blog is all about.

Terry

Cedric says:
Got my MP-67 a few days ago.
Only thing I can say so far is that they are not a problem at all to play with! Not even the 3 iron! And great shots are really awesome...
No, the biggest issue for me will be to get used to the new shaft (project X) which is completely different from the Dynamic Gold Lite that I had on my previous set. Once this is done (a matter of weeks I guess), I will be a better golfer.
One thing to finish: don't be afraid of blades!!

mattboy says:
This article rocked my golf world! Thx Terry!

I just picked up some used Wilson staff Fi5 Forged irons and they blew me away. I took 9 holes to get used to the distance, after that I hit the most green in my life. I was using oversized cavity back before, so the difference was considerable. No more ballooning irons and 'rockets' out of the rough.
The Fi5 are a progressive set,
muscle back: pw,9,8
cavity back: 7,6,5
sole weighted: 4,3

I haven't hit any new blades, but I find the accuracy with the mid cavity's it great, and the 3 and 4 aren't too hard to hit and quite it bit more forgiving than grandpa's 2-iron.

thanks again!

Manclawyer says:
HELP !!!!!
You may remember me from a couple of weeks ago - I have been playing with Mizuno T-Zoids oversozed cavity backs for 15 years and got down to 8 handicap. Decided that a new set of forged clubs would get me even lower and improve my game so went to be fitted for a set and tried various makes, Mizuno MP60's, Ping S58's, Nike CC's etc. The pro said the Callaway X Forged were the ones for me, so I ordered them and eagerly awaited the delivery. They were 2 degrees flat as opposed to my old Mizuno's which are 1 degree flat.

To cut a long story short, I am ready to jump off a bridge (taking my Callaways with me). Whereas with my old clubs I would be thinking 'how close to the pin can I get this from 150 yards out, now I'm thinking 'how near to the green can I get! I have completely lost my confidence in my ability to hit shots with irons. My driver is still good thank God, but I'm sha**ing, even my 9 irons, and seem to have lost about 2 clubs in distance. I am also now drawing the ball and even hitting a straight pull shot whereas with my old clubs I was deadly accurate and hit shots as straight as an arrow. in fact I couldn't hit a draw even when I tried! I went round in 94 on Sunday where my average score is between 80 and 82. All this in 2 weeks!

I went to the pro who has suddenly altered my grip (he says it's much too strong to ever play consistent golf - but how did I get to 8 then playing with cavity backs??) He has also told me that I need to move my weight back in the backswing - a slight sway away from the ball, before driving the hip laterally towards the target on the downswing.

Should I go back to my old clubs and old swing and live with never getting better than my 8 handicap, or is the pro right and should I continue to have lessons and wait for the light to go on?

Just one final question if I may guys - do you think that the slight difference in the lie (1 degree to 2 degrees) could be a factor in why I am now drawing/pulling my shots?

Please guys, help this poor struggler or I might be forced to give the game up and that would mean spending my Sundays at home with the wife. NOooooo!

PatB says:
Hi Terry; I love your threads. I have owned Tommy Amour 845, Callaway x14, and Wilson early 80GÇÖs blades. Funny the WilsonGÇÖs side by side with a Nike blade look very alike. I recently made an impulse buy of the new Hogan Apex FTX. The pw through 8 are muscle back pure blade while the 7 through 3 remain forged blade but introduce a progressive cavity. What do you think of the Hogan clubs? Are the muscle backs the higher quality and modern design you speak of and what about that transition to cavity?

wedgeguy says:
First, to Manclawyer, don't jump off a cliff yet!!

You have changed an awful lot of things all at once, so it's hard to pinpoint the cause of your problems, but let's start with the irons. A difference of 1* shouldn't make that much difference to totally affect your shot pattern and impact. I'd suggest your first step is to take both the Mizunos and new Callaways to a qualified independent clubmaker to have them measured and compared -- lie, length, shaft frequency, etc. -- to find out the real differences. That is a must. And i'll bet you will find enlightening information there.

Then, with regard to the instruction, take it in small doses. Not seeing your swing or grip, I certainly would not question your pro, but you might be overdoing it a bit. If you are swaying too much, and moving too much laterally in the forward swing, you cannot stay centered over the ball and therefore your contact will suffer greatly. Try "undoing" a little of what you think the pro said, and see if that doesn't help. But first, PLEASE get those clubs measured and compared.

wedgeguy says:
PatB,

I grew up a Hogan fan and complete believer, and spent time there as the Director of Marketing. But the company has been through so many changes of ownership and direction the past ten years, I don't really recognize it anymore, to be honest. I would not pass judgement on the Apex FTX, because I am not familiar with it, but I'll be the irons are fine. My concern would be the consistency of the shafts and would highly recommend a trip to an independent clubmaker/fitter to have them checked. I continue to talk about this to all of you, but it is SO IMPORTANT. Unless you know for sure what is in your bag, you will not play your best golf, and the only way to know that is to have a good clubmaker/fitter on your team. Besides, it's really fun to see what all goes into a golf club.

Manclawyer says:
Thanks Terry, you are probably right in that I am trying too hard to put everything that the pro mentioned into action all at once.

I will take your advice and maybe tone down the lateral movement and experiment with what works for me.

I'll let you know how I get on!

PatB says:
Thanks again Terry - How about the Nike blades, where do they stand?

wedgeguy says:
Pat, I don't typically comment on any brands if I can help it. There are so many good irons out there, and so few that are not, it makes deciding tough. But no matter what brand you buy, I'm a huge fan of having a qualified professional clubmaker/fitter check them for you, preferably before you commit your money. The consistency and quality control from mass-produced clubs often leaves a lot to be desired.

EB says:
Thank you, everyone.

I have been reading all the comments on this topic several times and without ever swinging a forged blade club, I suddenly felt the urge to try the effect as described by many. Everything I read here made perfect sense to me. So finally I ended up buying a set of irons that no sane person with my overlookable experience in golf would even consider. To be honest, I am a beginner. Period. I started golf 6 month ago and since then I have spent quite some time on the driving range, played as many rounds as my time schedule allowd me to and had about 30 pro lessons. Initially, to start off, I bought a set of Cobra S9 "SGI"-irons, as recommended, to help me through my learning phase, which I estimated to be about 2 years long. After reading all the interesting comments about blades vs. CBs, I could not resist a set of Titleist ZM 2008 forged irons, that was offered to me at a very intereseting price. This is supposed to be an extreme players iron for highly skilled golfers. Oddly, they are equipped with Aldila graphite shafts (!) and are about an inch shorter than my S9s. They must have been made on order for someone, that did not take them in the end. Maybe a skilled female golfer.

Today I tried them for the very first time and I must say, that I am truly amazed! I will not touch my Cobra S9 irons again after what I experienced today. Actually I cannot even look at those oversized clubheads any more after enjoying the clarity and simplicity of the slim and compact blade clubhead at adress. It was great. I never felt so much in control of a golf ball. Not even with my 60-¦ wedge. Normally, I would try to avoid my irons, if there is an alternative like a wood or a hybrid, that I could use in the situation, but with these forged irons, I cant wait for a situation that requires to play them. If you hit them nicely, it is such a satisfying experience and on mishits, mostly the damage is rather small, since you dont end up in the trees because of one bad swing.

Changing my irons to those forged blades has added a whole new dimension to my enjoyment of golf! I think there will be much more to come.

Thanks again for the precious advice.

Mike McEvoy says:
Yeah, the look factor is HUGE for me. I can't stand seeing those toplines that need to go on a diet! Seriously, though, whenever I'm messing around with someone else's clubs, it's inevitable that their topline is so thick as to be distracting. I think this is the biggest issue for me. Yeah, the better performance on good hits and improved feedback are great, but not having to hit an ugly club makes me smile :). Welcome to the high handicap/good equipment club :). The dues are cheap here.

Happy stroking!

JeremyP says:
This is a great topic. I moved from Mizuno MX900's to MP-57's and, even though I'm a high handicapper, I haven't lost any distance and I have gained accuracy. Although it's against what seems to be conventional wisdom you don't have to have a single figure handicap to play with a club that is more blade-like. One of the really great things is that I feel that I can do things I couldn't previously, like get a soft fade when my natural shape is a draw.

By the way there's a great article on this subject on the link below:

www.golfgearnewswire.com/Miura-Golf-Debuts-Limit

Cheers

DSchaefer says:
A cavity back will have less-precise center hits because it hits the ball higher making it more susceptible to the wind.

Snyper says:
It is a well known fact that blades are more accurate and less forgiving. That is why ONLY low handicappers should use them. I played cavity backs for a long time until I was consistent enough to play blades. Then, I made the switch. There is no reason for a 6 or 7 handicap to be playing with clubs that are going to punish them more for their mishits. A few more feet of accuracy no where near outweighs forgiveness for poor shots. If you walk off every distance and have a chart of the greens that spells out the distance from center to the pin location, then you should play blades. Otherwise, enjoy that toed 8 iron that ends up on the right side of the green instead of 15 yards short in the hazard.

sidewinder0613 says:
Question- is he referring to forged vs. cast clubs? Cause there are not much difference between a forged blade and a forged muscle back.

rumurphy says:
I'm very close to pulling the trigger on the Mizuno MP-52's... does anyone have any experience with them? Feedback, warnings, etc?

klangdon says:
I just started playing the mp-52's and love them. Here is a review: www.oobgolf.com/content/reviews/1-2152-Mizuno_MP

wedgeguy says:
I'm glad to see this topic still gets more comments than any I've ever written. To address Snyper, you are right, but only to a point. Read the comments from over a hundred high handicap players who found modern blades to be a boost to their scoring. To Sidewinder, the forged/cast point is moot -- it's about the material and where the mass is positioned, not how the head is formed. A stick of butter is cast and pretty darn soft, right? And tour players with Vokeys and Clevelands are all playing cast wedges.

All I'm gonna say . . . again . . . is if you are looking for a shot of "new" for your iron game, and are playing a thin-faced cavity back, borrow a set of modern blades with a shaft that remotely fits you and watch what happens. You're likely to be quite surprised.

Kent Ferris says:
I have been playing for a little over a year. I was improperly fitted with Big Bertha Callaways when I started. I have struggled with these clubs since day one. I started realizing it wasn't me when I travel I rent clubs and my game improves drastically. I am in the process of upgrading clugs and was looking at the x-22's. I recently tried the x-forged and absolutely loved them. I am a lefty so I have limited opportunities to try other irons. I mentioned my experience to the guy that I'm working with and he is strongly suggesting I not go with blades and stay with the x-22's. This is even before fitting me. I'm hoping my experience with the x-forges was not a fluke....i love how they look at address and do NOT miss the offset. I may have to find a different place to get fitted for an open opinion.

Marky Sparky says:
Part1:
I finally have to join in here after following this article for a long long time. HereGÇÖs my scoop, IGÇÖm a 13 handicap whose been playing for 4 years and am totally working on my game and have fallen in love with golf. I started with Ping G2 irons, very forgiving which I needed at the beginning ;-(. After hearing Terry Koehler on golf smarter podcast ( smarterpodcasts.com/golfsmarter/golfsmarter.html June 3 2008) I was sold on his wedges, I ordered a full set of 48/52/56/60 and never looked back, they are amazing. I emailed Terry and thanked him for giving me the ability to finally spin the ball back on greens (a great feeling) etc and mentioned that his wedges are so gorgeous that now I hate hitting my ugly fat topline G2s and need to buy a set of blades GÇ£in jestGÇ¥. He sent me this link and I too shared his epiphany with him and many of you.

Marky Sparky says:
Part2
I went and hit a set of Mizuno blades and Tigers new victory red blades at the range and instantly fell in love with the sweet feeling of hitting a ball and not feeling it at all. I was amazed at how well I could hit them. I also became aware through the tape on the clubface that I had been hitting my long irons off the toe, my cavity backs never gave me the feedback I needed to correct this, now I have.

Marky Sparky says:
Part3
I just received my first blades, Mizuno MP 62's, IGÇÖm in love ;-). They are very easy for me to hit and my miss hits are just a little shorter, usually still in the fairway or first cut ready for my awesome wedges to come in to play.
I am very happy for the info on this blog, we are being duped by the manufactures sales pitch, you are good enough for blades. I also discovered shot making recently and my game has really improved. I am using the wet/cold winter up here in Vancouver to get ready for a very special summer in 09.
Thanks Terry, thanks guys, wish me well,
Mark.

SHARKHARK says:
Sharky Shark
One poster just commented on going to x forged...as blades....they are a cavity back...so although forged in material vs cast...they are still a cavity back...albeit a more workable and less forgving desing...still a cavity back which the original author here...wedgeguy is saying you should consider breaking away from to try...unless i am wrong here?
I actually play callaway fusions and have considered the (in my opinon) beautiful x forged as my next set....but if i am reading the author right? If i want to experiment and take his advice...the x forged would not meet his criteria....something more like a mp60..with only a dimple of a cavity...with mass in center...would meet his suggestion?
am i right? I look forward to terry's reply...as i have read this thread with interest for about a yr now...and want in off season here in ontario...to buy a new set for experiment....

teevons says:
I thought I would throw in a little comment about what Wedge guy mentioned in his first post about the sweet spot being closer to the hosel on a blade.It has to do with The famous picture of Ben Hogan at Merion with his one iron. Hogan's one iron was lost or stolen. Years later a man found a Macgregor one iron at a junk shop and thought it might be Hogans since it said personal on it. He contacted Hogan through his company and sent it to Hogan to see if it was his. Hogan said it was because the sweet spot was worn just to the left of center, closer to the hosel!! That is where Hogan tried to hit his ball, not dead center, this was long before Iron Byron There is nothing like hitting it on the sweet spot, it seems when I miss them it is always on the toe, never on the left of center.
They are also beautiful to look at, I was playing with a friend in Palm Springs the other day who was Playing Mizunos mp33's, they look so nice at address, and beautiful in the bag too
Real Men Play Blades!

wedgeguy says:
Sharkhark, regarding your switch to blades, the Callaway x forged is not a bad modern blade at all, but it does have a slightly lower center of mass than the Mizuno. I would suggest that you find someone with a set of each and see if you can't play a round with both to see which you like better. I'd bet the ball flight will be a bit higher with the Callaway, but you need to find that out for yourself.

wedgeguy says:
teevons, My comment about the sweet spot being close to the hosel was about the older blades, with their long hosels. Modern blades from any company benefit from computer design and other technology, and the sweet spot is in the dead center of the face in most cases. Modern blades achieve this by moving some mass toward the toe,which also makes them much more forgiving than the older models.

teevons says:
Thanks wedge guy for the response, I collect and play blades, I have over 250 sets of blades and all of Hogans that his company made up untill 2006. I was referring to the older blades, thanks for bringing it to my attention so if some one buys a newer set they will aim for the center. It is also real sad to note that the Hogan company seems to be dead and buried, no new clubs in 2 years. Also when any new club reviews come out the clubs I grew up with and cherish, Wilson and Macgregor are no where to be seen.

JWHpurist says:
The finest set of blades I have ever played is my set of Wilson Pro Staff (Tour blade) FG-17's. #'s 1-9,PW. They make a round of golf a distinct pleasure. They require skill to play, but that is what the game is all about. If you "setup properly" and swing "in plane" you make proper contact and receive great feel up those "stiff steel shafts' and hit a long and accurate shot. These clubs were new in 1978 (well maintained) and produce more consistent results than the 5 other sets of blades I play at different times, some of which are cavity backs. The 1 iron is a pleasure to work the ball with in cross winds and I can still play it out to a 240 yds ave. carry. What do you think of that? JWH purist

wedgeguy says:
JWH, I think you are "the man". You know, this game can give us all kind of pleasure, and it's usually not "numerically gratifying", if you know what I mean. I occasionally take my old Reid Lockhart persimmon driver out and the feel is so . . . . well, it's just butter. And yes, it is a bit shorter than my Alpha, but that is more due to the shaft than anything. Still, there is a certain sweetness of that ball coming off the persimmon head.

Marc DeGrace says:
I just bought the blades Tiger used (@$100CDN) to win 3 US amateurs and his first Masters when he crushed the field with his Mizuno MP-14's (no not the actual set he used). He later signed a contract with Titleist on the condition they would be the same as these.
My Cobra CXI's with Dynlite Reg flex will probably be on sale mid summer once I've had a chance to play after the snow is gone in Milton/Burlington ON.
The best golf article I've read in a long time and keep coming back to read comments.
I've used a variety of clubs and only used the cavity back CXI's since I thought the only advantage of the blade was to work the ball left or right but am now convinced there's more to it. Thanks.
My handicap is about 15 with my weakness being a short 230 yard drive with a 3 wood.
I miss playing a blade, they feel great.
Question: Anyone know if the MP-14's are considered the old or new design?

wedgeguy says:
Marc,

The MP-14 certainly qualify as a modern blade, even though they do not have the modest weight management like the newer Mizunos. I think you will be quite happy with them. Be sure to keep us all informed, OK?

akashenk says:
I am a mid-handicapper (13) and have been playing Taylormade CBs for about 5 years. Last year, I demoed the Macgregor blades a few times and absoutely loved them, but I wasn't in the market to buy irons at the time. I planned on buying them this year but I didn't feel like buying new clubs from a company that might not exist in a year. I decided to try out the new Nike VR blades and Mizuno MP-67s. both were great. The only big difference was that the Nikes were a little easier to find (as opposed to having to special order them). I found it interesting that the golf outfitter tried to convince me out of the blades by stating that "only a few people in the world" play these. Has the industry gotten so ingrained in the de-facto game improvement club bias that retailers just assume that the easier-to-hit clubs are "better"? I'm sure as I get used to my new blades that my scoring might suffer a little, but I am confident my game will improve over time. Thanks for all the success stories!

wedgeguy says:
akashenk,

It's because the sales clerks, golf pros and others are buying the major companies' BS that you are not good enough to play blades. My bet is that you won't find your game suffering at all, and in fact, I'd bet you see a visible improvement in your ball striking and proximity to the hole on average from the very first round. Be sure to come back and let us know what happens, OK?

weekendhacker says:
Teevons,

I am also a Hogan fan, and am looking at buying a set of 2003 Apex blades - they look georgeous! How do they play? Do you recommend them? The online reviews say they are not forgiving at all... any feedback greatly appreciated.

Btw: thanks for this discussion wedgeguy, it has been a real eyeopener! Went to the range yesterday and found a Hogan Apex Blade on a kids shaft. Having played CBs for ever, this discussion got me wanting to test some blades before splashing out for a whole set. I asked the pro if he would prepare it for me - his response - too much hassle, and why did I want that? Asked me my handicap (mid to high - coming back to the game after a 7-8 year hiatus). Recommended me a Hogan Apex Plus 5 iron which I bought, so have some experimenting to do... still want that blade for comparison, so I might go get it and have it reshafted for some testing.

weekendhack

teevons says:
Weekendhacker
I love the 2003 Hogan blades,but then I love most all of Hogans blades. I would never depend on online review, you need to try some, You can get a very nice set of older Hogan blades on Ebay for shipping mostly, try some before you spend the big bucks,then get fitted once you think you want to buy some.

raidercruz says:
Terry, quick question, though not a true blade, what would your opinion of the MP-57 iron be? I have been playing the MX-20's for about 2 yrs now and am playing to about a 12 (will get a valid index this year), and have hit a wall. I'm ready to apply myself this year to getting as good as I can be (work nights so practice time is plentiful) and will be spending some good money on an iron set upgrade. I am wondering if, all things be relatively equal, I need to look at several "true" blades versus something like these 57's, VR Split-cavity, X-Forged, etc. Do you think these "forgiving muscle backs" would have the same effect (I know not as much but a significant improvement over full CB's) regarding improving swing mechanics to make better contact? I would love to start flag-hunting this year to make more birdies as I have a good short game and will be working on improving that aspect as well.

wedgeguy says:
Raidercruz,

The MP 57 is precisely the kind of modern blade I'm talking about. We amateurs don't need to be playing the "pure" blade that Tiger prefers, but a style like the Mizuno and many others will open your eyes to what you can really do with an iron in your hands. Be sure to let us know how you fare, OK?

gpierson says:
I need to buy new clubs. I tried a set of Hogan Apex blade at Golf Smith and I really like it. According to the computer they have, I hit it consitently straight.

A pro who gives lessons there tried to talk me out of buying them. Because of this I haven't bought the set yet. But I'm really thinking to get them. His bottom line was "Why not take advantage of the technology and get a cavity back set so you won't be frustrated on the course when you miss hit." He aslo used the internet as an analogy, "we've got computers and the internet now and I bet you use those don't you?"

To take the technology idea to the extreme, what if they develop a shotgun that can shoot golf balls accurately. I mean, you decide what "charge" you want, lets say 100 yards, load it, put the golf ball in, and shoot! That would really be taking advantage of technology. Technology is good but, we haven't given up our paper and pens or good old books made with paper yet! Will we ever?

gpierson says:
Weekend HAcker, I just read your post. Please let me know what your decision was. I'm actually in the same boat you are. Haven't played for a few years, getting negative advice from the pro and staff who sell them. Granted, they are giving it to me nicely, and I appreciate it because they are genuine. But my gut keeps telling me to go with the hogan blades (very cheap I might add. I also foudn them for $300). I know it will be a challenge, but I want to perfect my golf swing. Even if if I only can play 2 times per week (at best). Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment.

wedgeguy says:
If you play two times a week, you'll love the blades. All you have to do is read two years of comments on this article and you can see that there is substance to what I'm talking about. Go for it!

MAgolfr says:
I read all the comments on this page because everyone of them peaked my interst. I started playing golf last summer with a set of old Pine Eye Two cb Irons. I play OK I broke 100 for the first time earlier this spring and I would love to get my hands on some blades. Alot of people commented on the Mizuno mp's, either the 32 or 67's. I was thinking of maybe getting a single club and trying it out before I bought a whole set (online for a good deal). What us your opinion on this?

weekendhacker says:
Hi gpeirson,

sorry for taking so long to respond to your question... I bought the Apex 50s. :) Also got the 3 apex wedges. Have only used the gap wedge on the range so far as I am rebuilding my swing... it feels great. Chipping around the green is laser like - shot dispersion is really tight shot after shot, and as I keep doing my 9 to 3 drills, my contact is improving dramatically. I like you, have a long term goal to build a consistent repeatable swing, so it was a no brainer to get them. I still have my CBs and didn't want to buy another set. So if you are prepared to work and you liked how they felt, go for it. Good luck with them.

weekendhacker says:
update for gpierson:

get them!!! Haven't been able to play due to a bout of the flu, so went to an indoor driving range today and worked through the whole set. They felt sweet... the ball just clicked off the face, no matter whether it was a 3 iron or the lob wedge. I had tried the Mizuno cut muscle models and the Bridgestone J36 blade, but these felt clunky and cumbersome... not the Apexes... beautifully balanced and it felt like the ball was being swept away affortlessly. Highly recommended.

weekendhacker says:
Btw... I couldn't believe my ears. The owner of the indoor driving range looked at my clubs and said they were beautiful and wanted to buy a set but couldn't find them. I told him that the pros at the golf shops were trying to talk me into buying cavity backs... he said I did the right thing - much more feedback to improve the swing rather than swinging those shovels where you can't feel anything. Pleasantly surprised.

Thorre says:
I use game improvement irons when I play. Recently I found a Mizuno MP-60 in great shape in a used club bin. I bought it because I have always wanted to hit a good blade. It is sweet. I use it for practice at the range, and have really improved my ball striking with my other irons.

raidercruz says:
Hi Terry, just wanted to give you an update. I bought the MP-57's after trying several different irons (MP-52, MP-60, Nike Split-Cavity and the Bridgestone J36). I'm partial to Mizuno but wanted to be as fair as possible. Still haven't gotten a USGA handicap but have tracked my scores since Mid-April when I bought the irons. Full disclosure here, I also bought new wedges (Miura 52 and 60, Spin-Mill 56). Before the spending spree, my average score was about 86 ( I tallied a bunch of scores after I initially posted and saw that I was a little generous with my "12" estimation). I would shoot the occasional 80 or 82 as well as the occasional 88 or 92 and I only broke 80 once ( a 77 late last year).

raidercruz says:
...The new irons took some getting used to and I was humbled more than I would have liked. In the last 30 days my low scores were 78 and 76 with the average being 82. I went from graphite CBs to steel MBs so I initially dropped about a club to a club and a half distance-wise. I tried multiple balls and found 3 that I really like that gained some of that distance back. EVERY time I mis-hit a ball it is an immediate reminder to swing within myself and concentrate on good, solid contact. The results speak for themselves. I am giving myself WAY more chances at Birdie that have increased my Pars per round.

raidercruz says:
...I used to be happy with 1-2 birdies a round. I am now dissapointed if I card less than 2 per side. One other thing, I used to play "preferred lies" all over the course (cheating that inflated my scoring skill). This scoring improvement came with playing completely "as it lies". I am so thankful I found this article and thread. If a person can repeatedly make a decent pass at ball, I would HIGHLY recommend that they give MBs a try. When you "flush" one, you'll realize that sweet spot contact is a great feeling that yields great results. Thanks again!

Torleif Sorenson says:
Terry, I was really struck by your quote above: "As Mr. Hogan always said, 'a club is 90% shaft and 10% how it goes through the dirt.'" Perhaps that's why I ended up liking a set of used Hogan Edge forged cavitybacks (3-flex) in 1999; I found out later about Hogan shafts' considerable reputation. The other reason is that I was looking for the "best of both worlds," feedback and forgiveness.

Two years earlier I bought a 2-8 set of Spalding Bobby Jones forged blades for a cheap investment. But between the regular-flex shaft, the slightly smaller grips (I have short fingers), and the instant (and sweeeet!) feedback, I got sold on forged blades. I've put my Spaldings away lest I break one of them, but reading this thread not only makes me anxious to find a good set of blades, preferably down to at least a 2-iron. Thanks, Terry, and to all the rest of you who've posted here!

nique says:
This column has really helped me. I am just getting back to golf after a long
break. I recenty purchased an R9 driver which I really like and some Burner
cavity backs, which don't seem to be working for me. I'm going back to my mid
70's Haig Ultra blades for precision. I saw some Cleveland blades today
which don't look too different from the old blades.

Richatvillage says:
I am 52 & played to a 9 with Top Flite Tour cavity backs. I went back to my '99 Hogan Apex Blades & dropped to a 7. The blades seem to make me concetrate more & focus on a better swing. I don't always make one, but when I do, I am rewarded, which is how it should be.Yardages vary due to different lofts, but most of the shots with the blades, are better than the best of the cavity backs.I plan on a new set of blades before next season. P.S. The Hogans will never be for sale!

nique says:
I'm considering this configuration as I return to the game.
3 hybrid, 4-PW old Haig Ultra blades, then new Burner A wedge and S wedge.
Any comments?

oricle24 says:
I am fairly new to the game(3 years) and have played 2006 Big Bertha irons from the beginning. I play alot of golf and have posted my best rounds this season. After reading some comments in this thread, I purchased a set of TMade TP irons. Should I be swinging the "blades" any differently than I've been swinging my game improvement irons?

wedgeguy says:
nique,

I'd sure suggest you give the EIDOLON V-SOLE wedges a try. We get rave reviews and have a foolproof satisfaction guarantee. Just a thought. ;-)

nique says:
Wedgeguy,

I own 3 new Burner wedges, but I am still experimenting with equipment.
Will keep the EIDOLONS in mind.

nique says:
Just got back from range. The '09 Burner irons are starting to work.
The R9 Driver is worth its weight in gold-- oh maybe not at today's
price.