Lies about Lie Angle
This is my first post since TheWedgeGuy.com moved to its new home at oobgolf.com, so I thought I would get out on the edge again for all you new readers. You'll find that I go "out there" quite often, as I've been in the equipment business for nearly 30 years now and it just rankles me when you golfers only get a piece of the story, or a total batch of hooey from the press or equipment industry. So here goes.
I just finished reading another of the million or so tips written about the importance of lie angle and just had to sound off on this topic. Like all the others, this one said that you should make your lies more upright to fix a problem. Sheesh. Now, I am a huge believer that every golfer should have clubs that fit, that are made to tight specifications and that are matched to each other from the driver to the wedges. But I’ll take the industry to task that we should always match the specs to the golfer – more often than not we need to match the golfer to the specs! When it comes to lie angle, 99% of the tips are targeted to the problems from clubs that have a lie that is too flat, thereby causing impact on the toe of the club and the toe digging into the turf. Since the focus on custom-fitting began, we've seen a huge trend to fit clubs more upright in lie angle than the manufacturer standard specifications, but is this always the right solution? More often than not, when the golfer is digging the toe into the ground, a swing path alteration is the better solution than to adjust the clubs. That's because clubs' lie angles are derived from a study of the best players in the game, the tour professionals. These guys (and ladies) know how to strike a golf ball in the most efficient manner possible, and even the tallest players do not have their irons adjusted more than a degree or two upright, at the most! So why do I see so many recreational golfers, of normal height, begin fitted 3 and even 4 degrees or more upright? Because they do not understand the simple physics of the proper path of the hands through the impact zone. Almost every recreational golfer comes through the impact zone with their hands too high . . . too far away from their body . . . so that the angle of approach to the ball is too steep. The toe digs in and a poor shot results. Rather than adjust the clubs' lie angle several degrees upright, which will permanently trap the golfer into this incorrect path to the ball, wouldn’t it be smarter to use that club feedback to help you find the proper path to the ball, so you can hit better quality shots? If you feel the toe digging in, relax your arms and let them come through the impact zone closer to the body, on a path that mirrors their natural hanging position at address. Focus on maintaining a distinct angle formed by the left arm (for RH players) and the shaft – the arm hangs almost vertically, and the shaft extends from the hands to the ball. This weekend, watch the best players in the game at address – their arms are hanging naturally from their shoulders – and notice how they "cover" that same position as they come through impact. There is more power and accuracy with this path, and you can swing slower and get the same or better distance if you will let this happen. OK, I feel better now. If you'd like me to write more about this, I'll certainly be happy to do that. I think it is the single biggest "secret" that separates better players from the other 99+ % of recreational golfers. Sound off, oobgolfers!!!
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[ comments ]  possingk says:Great article, as a 6'4" golfer I have always had the shafts on my clubs extended, and often wondered about the lies on my clubs so it was good to read an opinion that isn't based on trying to sell me something. Great to have you here on OOBgolf, I always enjoyed reading your articles before now it is more of a one stop shop. 10/9/08
hhkan says:
I agree with the comments. Following this line of reasoning, the conclusion would be that most golfers should be fitted using static fitting and not dynamic fitting. Dynamic fitting should be used for golfers who already have good swings. 10/9/08
shathorn says:
I have to sound off... You are right on. The equipment manufacturers have engineers who make their living studying the optimal impact conditions. We need to work on our swings to be as close to that as possible, not adjust equipment to the extreme to compensate for a bad swing. 10/14/08
 blue_crush says:now while I agree with you on the fundamental swing theory. you have to allow for those who have a different swings but still make good ball flight/contact. therefore they may benefit from such club adjustments. it only works for them if they have a repeatable swing and lower hdcps for sure. not everyone can have a perfect swing plane and set-up, what about the like of a guys like Jim Furyk who don't fit the model swing. 10/18/08
 bradclardy says:Hi, I don't know where to leave general comments and questions for you, so I'll do it on this post and hope for an answer. Could you post a topic with insight to ported wedges to include benefits and sizing options for anyone interested in doing this? Thanks! 10/20/08
blue_crush says:ported wedges, as less weight to apply the old 9.8 mpers of gravity to along with Fnet = m*a -1/8 X 3/16 = A+b2=M/S2 so less mass = less force. or, which means you will always be short of green..... IMHO 10/22/08
 Mattro says:THis just reaffirms my theory that if you maintain the proper angles that people would find they should probably have their clubs bent -1 instead of +1 10/28/08
 wedgeguy says:Sorry to be so late getting back in on this, guys. Please understand that I'm not denigrating the importance of fitting at all -- quite to the contrary, I'm a huge fan of the process . . . done right. But altering lie angles is not always the solution, and getting more than 2* in either direction is a dramatic alteration of the playing characteristics of any golf club, so it should be done very carefully. I was making the point that toe or heel contact with the turf might be a swing clue, rather than a clubfit problem. Oh, and on that subject of "porting" wedges, you got me blue_crush . . .wow! But we do know that removing weight by grinding or porting has next to no effect on moving the center of mass of the clubhead. And I'm a believer that mass in the wedge head is your friend, as you use these clubs so often at slow speeds, but still with the need to move rough or sand -- that takes mass. 11/18/08
JWHpurist says:
Interesting comments above. How about the people that learned this game over 50 years ago and were taught to be able to pick up any club at any time. Swing it a few times, set up at address and adjust to the tool in hand and make a proper swing and contact for the desired results. This is no different than playing a 9 hole par 3 course, such as the Wilson in Griffith Park (LA) with only a 7 iron and a putter and recording a resonable score. I did that in the middle 60's with 50's clubs and it was very enjoyable! What do you think of that? JWHpurist 1/6/09
randy warren says:
Dear Wedgeguy: I have found that with my new one plane swing posture (ie more bent at the hips) my clubs no longer sole properly ( toe becomes elevated) Any comments?? 4/20/09
wedgeguy says:You've changed your posture and swing plane and your older clubs are too upright in the lie angle. I "preach" all the time that great players set their wedges 1-2 flatter than their irons to promote a great short game technique. You are getting there with your change. Go to a qualified clubfitter and have him alter your lie angles flatter and you're good to go. 4/21/09
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