Just a question: This applies to casual play

I routinely play with multiple people. As a result it is easy to lose track of a ball that is just off the fairway while the others tee off. If the ball is clearly in play, but simply can't be found due to rough, can't a free drop be assessed? Someone could have picked it up, you could be standing right next to it and not see it, you could be 20 yrds away from it and never find it, and many other reasons.

The main reason I ask this question is that amateurs try to play as closely to the rules as possible to simulate professional golf. However, professionals have TV cameras, ball finders, and hundreds of people in the gallery looking for their ball. If the ball is in play or even out of play, someone with find it. Amateurs are not so lucky and can easily lose a ball in the rough. I've even lost a ball that was on the fairway, explain that to me!!! Damn people picking up balls. My point is, some rules are meant for the pros.

No, you can't. If you find your ball and wonder off to get clubs or help someone else find a ball, just put your glove next to it or make it refindable otherwise.

"Casual play"? No such thing in the rulebook. Compare it to other sports: in tennis, even in a friendly game, a ball that doesn't land within the lines of the court (or touches it) is "out", even if there is no hawkey to test it. Why should this be any different in golf?

All rules are meant for the amateurs. Open the rulebook, page 1: "Both R&A Rules Limited and the USGA wish to promote respect for and adherence to the Rules and to preserve the integrity of golf at all levels.". That includes amateurs, yes, even beginners.

Now, we all don't care what you do on a lazy sunday afternoon on a golfcourse that's full of players that play the course once or twice a year. Just don't call it "golf" than.

There is a big difference between golf and tennis. Massive. In tennis you trust your opponent to call the ball in or out. If you don't agree with them, you can contest. If one doesn't respect the lines, you might as well not play.

Golf is totally different. I can hit a ball 2 feet into the rough and lose it while waiting for my partners to tee off. My point was, in reference to the conveniences of the pros, if the professionals didn't have TV, ball finders, and the gallery hunting for every miss hit, their average score would very likely jump at least a full stroke. Take the footage of Nick Faldo hitting his ball out of a tree from 10 feet off the ground!!! How the hell would someone without the conveniences of a professional find that!! If I am playing a tournament round, I will adhere to the rules since one must create a level playing field. However, I will also be at a much higher level of alertness than during a casual round. My eyes will never leave my ball, not for a second. Is that how we must play a casual round of golf, as intensely as possible. Screw that, I want to have fun.

Oh yeah, just to make it clear. I follow the rules because I play competitively with others that are more strict than I, but I think some rule are ridiculous for amateurs to follow. Absolutely ridiculous. An example: My buddy hit a ball from the trees to within 5 feet of the green. We both saw it hit the ground and role into the rough by the green. Two people saw it. When we got up to where it was, It was no where to be found. Everyone has stories like this, but just bend over to rules that are no longer appropriate. You want to create a level playing field?? Take away the ball finders in the PGA and don't allow the Gallery to search for a ball! Then, I will take this rule more seriously.

DanielBazewicz wrote:

If one doesn't respect the lines, you might as well not play. Golf is totally different.

You're missing the point. Either you respect the rules of the game or you don't. Whining about how others that play the game for a living that seem to have an advantage is just silly.

In addition, do you really think all professionals have help from forecaddies, TV and spectators? When was the last time you set foot on a professional golf tournament?

Anyway, you're asking for "the right ruling" here and that ruling is: there are no other options than to take the walk of shame when you can't find your ball and were not smart enough to play a provisional. If you do something else, you break rule 27 and get penalized 2 strokes. You'ld have to return to the original spot and replay from there (with another penalty of 1 stroke). If you do not do that before you tee off at the next hole (or pull your ball from the 18th hole), you are disqualified. Likewise, if you decide to waive rule 27 alltogether, you're disqualified. If you still hand in such a score for keeping a handicap, you're just kidding yourself.

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Screw that, I want to have fun.

Than play a "practice round" where you easily can play 4 balls if you want, drop one in the fairway instead of playing from the bunker or use your leatherwedge if you want to. Just don't call it "golf" or pretend to follow the rules .

Hey, don't get me wrong, I play with friends sunday mornings when we have no official tournament that weekend. We don't always hole out and we do play a mullighan once in a while. We just don't pretend to play golf and keep score!

OTOH, when we play a skins game for example, the rules are followed to the letter. Including rule 27. It hardly ever happens we loose a ball in the fairway, first or even the second cut. If you're loosing a ball in the rough, that's bad luck - but it happens. Life sometimes just isn't fair, get over it and enjoy the game

Yea it sucks to lose a ball right off the fairway, or even IN the fairway. i've done that already. There are rules to cover that sort of thing though.

Rule 27-1 exceptions 1 and 2. IF it is known or virtually certain that the original ball that has not been found is in an obstruction or is an abnormal ground condition the player may proceed under the applicable rule.
If it is known or virtually certain that the original ball that has not been found has been moved by an outside agency, or is in a water hazard the player must proceed under the applicable rule

in that case the outside agency would have been a person picking the ball up and taking it. For that to be the case, though, you'd have to be reasonably certain that it happened. I.e. if you hit the ball in the fairway or rough and a person from another hole comes over to get his ball where yours is, then obviously he's moved it and you can replace or substitute a ball with no penalty. However if nobody is seen in the area, you can't reasonably assume someone picked it up. Unfortunately it's all stroke and distance penalty for a lost ball.

The Fall season is upon us and there are going to be a lot of leaves lying around. We're really going to have to watch where the ball lands. I almost gave up searching for one that was on the green on a par 3 in Santa Fe, I saw it land on the green, but it took several minutes to find.

merlin2driver wrote:

The Fall season is upon us and there are going to be a lot of leaves lying around.

Orange colored balls help a lot .

Jev:

OK. Let me come up with a scenario then: I hit a ball on the green from 100yrds. All of my buddies are watching, see it tear a hole in the green and sit 3 feet from the pin. We turn to hop in our carts and head to the green. When we get there the ball is gone. The ball mark is there, but no ball. What then. The book says that I must replay the shot essentially taking a 2 stroke penalty. Common sense tells us, "Put the ball where it most likely was, using the ball mark as a reference." This may be an unlikely scenario, but still what does the rule say, and does it make sense?

Thats the only point I am trying to make here. Does this rule make sense? Not what the rule is. Rules are made to be changed.

DanielBazewicz wrote:

Common sense tells us, "Put the ball where it most likely was, using the ball mark as a reference."

In that specific case you are supported by the rules. Someone (an outside agency) stole it and thus you can follow 18-1 (or 19-1 if the ball was not at rest):

Code:

If a ball at rest is moved by an outside agency, there is no penalty and the ball must be replaced. Note: It is a question of fact whether a ball has been moved by an outside agency. In order to apply this Rule, it must be known or virtually certain that an outside agency has moved the ball. In the absence of such knowledge or certainty, the player must play the ball as it lies or, if the ball is not found, proceed under Rule 27-1.

I suggest you look through the decisions that are readily available on this subject on both, the USGA and R&A websites.

Anyway... you where talking about a ball in the rough, just a couple of feet from the fairway, not a ball that is stolen from the green.

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Does this rule make sense?

The rule was designed for situations where your ball is lost in normal circumstances: sliced into the woods that line the fairway, that kind of stuff. In such a situation, placing or dropping a ball "as close to the position where the player thinks it should be" or something similar would certainly generate a lot of heated discussion on the course - in all equity, it can't be followed - we all know what strange things happen to a ball when it hits a tree. That's why the rule is as it is and yes, in that light it makes sense.

What is wrong with this rule? I see a number of people complaining about it because it would slow down play (that's why a provisional is allowed) or are they just too lazy to go back? Is the extra penalty too big? Might be, and if so, that could be cured by scrapping the extra penalty stroke out of the rulebook. But in essence, a lost ball is just that: a ball that we can't find at the location we expect it to be, most probably because the ball just isn't there but somewhere else (hah, how is that for stating the obvious? ).

There's a whole lot we can discuss on this subject but the reality is you should make the case for your local referee. Talk to the course owner, he may very well be able to improve the course so that "unfairly lost balls" are less of a problem. Cut the rough a bit shorter, make sure no non-golfers walk the course etc. etc.

JEV I'm wondering if an orange ball would be beneficial in the Fall when the leaves are turning red and orange. The scenario I was referring to in Santa Fe NM was a green where the leaves had covered the whole surface and my ball was hidden under a leaf.

I suppose the solution would be to carry one of those gasoline powered back pack leaf blowers. That wouldn't be too much of a problem , since I already have a chainsaw in my bag.

I don't want to turn argumentative, so I'll try my best not to. I just don't see a big difference between my green situation and my ball being lost in the rough. I would be willing to accept an unplayable lie penalty when I can't find my ball in the rough as a compromise. I don't understand the two stroke penalty.

I know what the book says, kinda, at least I know what you say the book says which I will assume is accurate. The lost ball penalty when one knows damn well it is certainly in play is ridiculous.

merlin2driver wrote:

JEV I'm wondering if an orange ball would be beneficial in the Fall when the leaves are turning red and orange.

My experience is the orange balls stand out from almost anything. The orange from fallen leaves usually isn't that orange, it's more like a brownish / yellow / orange color that is in stark contrast to the harsh orange color of a golfball. Try it out once - you just may be in for a surprise. YMMV ofcourse!

They are great for playing in foggy conditions too. Where a white ball disappears in the fog almost immediately, an orange ball stays visible much longer.

The only disadvantage of playing orange balls is they usually are not the best playable balls - they tend to be 2-piece core and relatively hard.

I just finished playing a course where the card was printed with the local rule that the course had no out-of-bounds and any lost ball was to be played as a lateral hazard and dropped at a stroke penalty as near as possible to where it was lost.Now if I knew where that point was it would'nt be lost huh?
Anyway,it was great to see a course use the rule most people play by anyway.The Alabama golf team uses this course as their home course,I wonder if they use the rule?Seems unfair in NCAA tournaments though since other schools have to live with the regular rule.