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Bryan K
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 2301
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 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
| Bryan K wrote: |
I'm going by rote memory on this one because it comes up from time to time. The correct answer should be C. A player does not get penalized for accidentally moving a ball while conducting a search. |
In strokeplay you would have been right. Unfortunately, this is matchplay and thus 1 penalty stroke for the player (18-3b) - the ball is not covered by sand and it's not in a hazard or GUR. Thus the exceptions in 12-1 do not apply. I think Player actually is right and d) is the right answer.
Question 13 (we're half way!):
13) In stroke play, a player’s tee shot creates a small pitch mark in the fairway approximately 140 yards from the green and approximately five yards in front of where his ball comes to rest on his line of play. Before he makes his next stroke, he notices the pitch mark and taps it down. The player then plays his stroke over the pitch mark with a nine iron. What is the ruling?
a. The player has incurred no penalty.
b. The player has incurred a one-stroke penalty.
c. The player has incurred a two-stroke penalty.
d. The player has incurred a two-stroke penalty and must replay the previous stroke. |
I think the key here is that the pitch mark is between the ball and the hole. He would incur a two-stroke penalty because of it. If the mark had been behind the ball, I think he would have been okay.
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jev
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 591
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Bryan K wrote: |
| I think the key here is that the pitch mark is between the ball and the hole. He would incur a two-stroke penalty because of it. |
He doesn't gain an advantage by repairing the plug and thus no penalty. See 13-2/0.5. Sometimes the Decisions actually just are like common sense  .
Q14:
14) A competitor, who lies three on the green, putts his ball not realizing that his fellow-competitor’s ball is in motion from a stroke played from off the green. The competitor’s ball is deflected by the fellow-competitor’s ball and comes to rest farther away from the hole than its original position. The competitor marks the position of his ball and lifts it. He then places another ball on the spot where he had marked his original ball and putts the ball into the hole. His score for the hole is:
a. 5.
b. 6.
c. 7.
d. 8.
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Bryan K
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 2301
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
| Bryan K wrote: |
| I think the key here is that the pitch mark is between the ball and the hole. He would incur a two-stroke penalty because of it. |
He doesn't gain an advantage by repairing the plug and thus no penalty. See 13-2/0.5. Sometimes the Decisions actually just are like common sense . |
Since when are golf rules based on common sense? I think that the most obvious problem here is the fact that I can't even get these questions right after looking at the rules. Sounds to me like they need to throw out the rulebook and start over.
| Quote: |
Q14:
14) A competitor, who lies three on the green, putts his ball not realizing that his fellow-competitor’s ball is in motion from a stroke played from off the green. The competitor’s ball is deflected by the fellow-competitor’s ball and comes to rest farther away from the hole than its original position. The competitor marks the position of his ball and lifts it. He then places another ball on the spot where he had marked his original ball and putts the ball into the hole. His score for the hole is:
a. 5.
b. 6.
c. 7.
d. 8. |
I don't think any of these answers are correct. Sounds to me like he scored a par according to 19-5b. "If a player’s ball in motion after a stroke on the putting green is deflected or stopped by another ball in motion after a stroke, the player’s stroke is canceled. The ball must be replaced and replayed, without penalty."
Unless, of course, the fact that he marked the ball that was no longer in play has a bearing on the decision.
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bkuehn1952
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
| He doesn't gain an advantage by repairing the plug and thus no penalty. See 13-2/0.5. Sometimes the Decisions actually just are like common sense .[/i] |
I find that Decision to be fascinating. It makes absolute sense where often the Rules seem to make no sense at all.
I wonder if the level of ability would come into play. For a beginner, hitting the ball 5 feet is sometimes a real possibility. Heck, I have been known to approach that level of inability at times.
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player
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 480
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| Posted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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#13: A - no penalty because replacement of the mark did not help him
#14: C - 7
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jev
Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 591
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| Bryan K wrote: |
| The ball must be replaced and replayed, without penalty." |
Keyword: The ball, not "another" ball. Two-stroke penalty. I think he scores a 6?
Why he marks the new position of the ball is beyond me though  .
@Player: why 7?
Q15:
15) A competitor addresses his ball on the putting green. Believing that the ball may be balanced on an irregular surface and might move, he steps away to survey the situation. He decides to mark the ball, lift it and replace it on the green. When he does so, and before he has a chance to take further action, the ball, which was at rest after being replaced, moves without apparent cause. The competitor incurs:
a. No penalty and the ball must be played from its new position.
b. No penalty and the ball must be replaced.
c. A one-stroke penalty and the competitor must replace the ball.
d. A two-stroke penalty and the competitor must replace the ball.
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Bryan K
Joined: 14 May 2009
Posts: 2301
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
| Bryan K wrote: |
| The ball must be replaced and replayed, without penalty." |
Keyword: The ball, not "another" ball. Two-stroke penalty. I think he scores a 6?
Why he marks the new position of the ball is beyond me though . |
I obviously missed that key word. Why would he lift the ball he played and not use it? Hmm.
| Quote: |
Q15:
15) A competitor addresses his ball on the putting green. Believing that the ball may be balanced on an irregular surface and might move, he steps away to survey the situation. He decides to mark the ball, lift it and replace it on the green. When he does so, and before he has a chance to take further action, the ball, which was at rest after being replaced, moves without apparent cause. The competitor incurs:
a. No penalty and the ball must be played from its new position.
b. No penalty and the ball must be replaced.
c. A one-stroke penalty and the competitor must replace the ball.
d. A two-stroke penalty and the competitor must replace the ball. |
I believe this is covered by 18-2b. The competitor must take a one stroke penalty for marking the ball after it had been addressed. In decision 18-2b/8, it is deemed that he not be penalized for the ball moving after he addressed it. But nowhere in the rules (that I could find) does it say that it is okay to mark and lift a ball after it is addressed. Thus, C is correct.
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bkuehn1952
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
Q15:
15) A competitor addresses his ball on the putting green. Believing that the ball may be balanced on an irregular surface and might move, he steps away to survey the situation. He decides to mark the ball, lift it and replace it on the green. When he does so, and before he has a chance to take further action, the ball, which was at rest after being replaced, moves without apparent cause. The competitor incurs:
a. No penalty and the ball must be played from its new position.
b. No penalty and the ball must be replaced.
c. A one-stroke penalty and the competitor must replace the ball.
d. A two-stroke penalty and the competitor must replace the ball. |
My inclination would be that once the player re-marked and then replaced the ball, the fact that he had addressed the ball previously is no longer an issue. So now the ball is in play and at rest. Then, for no apparent reason it rolls to another location. At this point the player has not taken any action that would have caused the ball to move and no outside agency has moved the ball. On that basis I think "a" is correct. No penalty and play the ball from its new position.
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player
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 480
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| Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with bkhuen52. A.
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Rulesman
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
Q15:
15) A competitor addresses his ball on the putting green. Believing that the ball may be balanced on an irregular surface and might move, he steps away to survey the situation. He decides to mark the ball, lift it and replace it on the green. When he does so, and before he has a chance to take further action, the ball, which was at rest after being replaced, moves without apparent cause. The competitor incurs:
a. No penalty and the ball must be played from its new position.
b. No penalty and the ball must be replaced.
c. A one-stroke penalty and the competitor must replace the ball.
d. A two-stroke penalty and the competitor must replace the ball. |
a) No penalty. See Decision 18-2b/8
Last edited by Rulesman on Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rulesman
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
Q14:
14) A competitor, who lies three on the green, putts his ball not realizing that his fellow-competitor’s ball is in motion from a stroke played from off the green. The competitor’s ball is deflected by the fellow-competitor’s ball and comes to rest farther away from the hole than its original position. The competitor marks the position of his ball and lifts it. He then places another ball on the spot where he had marked his original ball and putts the ball into the hole. His score for the hole is:
a. 5.
b. 6.
c. 7.
d. 8. |
b) 6
R19-1b applies to the player's ball not R16-1f.
The stroke should have been cancelled, the ball replaced and replayed.
The substitution is not allowed so 2PS under R15-2.
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Rulesman
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
13) In stroke play, a player’s tee shot creates a small pitch mark in the fairway approximately 140 yards from the green and approximately five yards in front of where his ball comes to rest on his line of play. Before he makes his next stroke, he notices the pitch mark and taps it down. The player then plays his stroke over the pitch mark with a nine iron. What is the ruling?
a. The player has incurred no penalty.
b. The player has incurred a one-stroke penalty.
c. The player has incurred a two-stroke penalty.
d. The player has incurred a two-stroke penalty and must replay the previous stroke.[/i] |
a) no penalty
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-13/#13-2/0.5
Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:
· repairs a small pitch-mark on his line of play five yards in front of his ball prior to making a 150-yard approach shot from through the green;
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Rulesman
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
Next question:
12) In four-ball match play, during a search for a ball, a player's partner does not see the player’s ball lying through the green and runs over it with their golf cart. After inspecting the area where the ball was embedded, the players cannot say for certain where the original ball lay prior to being run over. What is the ruling?
a. The partner incurs a penalty stroke and the player is entitled to drop the ball in accordance with Rule 25-2.
b. The player incurs a penalty stroke and he must place the ball in the nearest lie most similar to the original lie within one club-length not nearer the hole.
c. Since the ball was moved during search, in equity the player was entitled to place his ball as near as possible to the estimated original spot not nearer the hole without penalty to either partner.
d. The player incurs a penalty stroke and he must drop the ball as close as possible to the estimated original spot not nearer the hole.[/i] |
d) 18-2a and 20-3c(i).
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Rulesman
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
11) A competitor decides his ball lying in a water hazard is unplayable. He asks his caddie to retrieve the ball and tells him where to drop it in the hazard. The caddie substitutes another ball for the original ball and puts it into play by tossing it underhanded into the hazard rather than following the procedure of Rule 20-2a. The competitor makes a stroke at the ball. The competitor has incurred how many penalty strokes?
a. Two
b. Three
c. Four
d. Five |
b) 3 penalty strokes
26-1 = 1
20-7c Note 3 = 2
Decision 20-7/2
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Rulesman
Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 147
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| Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| jev wrote: |
Question 10:
10) A competitor, whose ball is lying in a bunker, takes his stance and grounds his club four inches behind the ball. Gravity then causes the ball to move. He replaces the ball and plays a stroke. The competitor has incurred:
a. One penalty stroke.
b. Two penalty strokes.
c. Three penalty strokes.
d. Four penalty strokes.[/i]
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d) 2 + 2
13-4b
18-2a (decs 18-2b/3 & 4) or 15-3
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