You know those short par 4's that are close enough to go for it in one, but the layout makes it impossible to actually get there in one?

I played a course last night with two such holes. Officially, they were both about 315, but the actual yardage, as the crow flies, was 280 and 260 respectively. Both holes had a very small landing area where an approach to the green would be feasible that required an awesome 220+ yard shot to hit. The first hole was actually 250 to the landing area. That's a driver shot for me, but if you hit it 270 (which is likely for me), it goes too far into the woods. You hit it 240, and you have to hit a layup shot. The second was 220 to the landing area. 215 gives you no shot at all, and 240 puts you in the red hazard.

The first hole, I hit my tee shot about 240 (wind at my back) right in the middle of the fairway with my 5w, which is an incredible shot for me. And I had no shot whatsoever at the green. I had to punch under a tree. The second hole, I hit another incredible 5w shot that went about 220 (into the wind). I found myself with only a shot at the right side of the green due to the tree that couldn't be hit over.

And the worst part about these holes is that they bring the overall rating and slope of the cours down due to their shor tlength despite the fact that they are incredibly difficult.

I played a course on Monday (Wildwood) that has a downhill par 3 where practically the entire green is blocked by by the canopy of a huge tree. You have to fly over the tree to get on the green.

Bryan K wrote:

Both holes had a very small landing area where an approach to the green would be feasible. The first hole was actually 250 to the landing area. If you hit it 270 (which is likely for me), it goes too far into the woods. You hit it 240, and you have to hit a layup shot. The second was 220 to the landing area. 215 gives you no shot at all, and 240 puts you in the red hazard.

I agree with you. Hitting to a 10 yard wide landing area makes no sense when the shot is 200+ yards.

What if you play a shot more to the right (assuming a left turning dogleg) or more to the left (assuming a right turning dogleg)? Most doglegs "open up" if you play further away from the turn. If leaves you a longer shot but more room to go over an obstacle or bend a shot around something.

On the other hand, it could just be a poor design that leaves one with almost no way to play the hole without pinpoint accuracy. When I know a course like that, I don't play there.

we have a hole similar to these at my course, not big oaks or anything like that but you either have to lay back alot and hit over palms or be far enough right (dogleg left) to have an open shot to the green. Also the green is no cupcake either (severly sloping). There is not really a forced carry or anything but club can be anything from a 3w to a 7i, hole plays 315. Don't know as the crow flies as there is water fronting the green and unless you are playing the up tees would not be feasable to go for it. FWIW I like the hole just dont play it very well.

This is never a problem for me. I don't hit the ball further than 225, and you're not going to find too many 225-yard par fours outside of an executive course. For me, that hole would be a five hybrid off the tee, then a pitch to the green, and hope I get it close enough for a birdie chance.

i think that most drivable par 4's would have some sort of protection, whether a narrow path of entry or bunkering/hazards near the green. they don't want to make it too easy, right?

I am increasingly put off by holes that demand forced carries with the driver to get over a creek or baranca off the tee. This is why older players Play It Forward.

SteveMM wrote:

This is never a problem for me. I don't hit the ball further than 225, and you're not going to find too many 225-yard par fours outside of an executive course. For me, that hole would be a five hybrid off the tee, then a pitch to the green, and hope I get it close enough for a birdie chance.

In the case of the holes I posted about, it was 225 yards to get to a spot where you would have a clear shot at the green because of the 60 foot tall trees that the holes bend around. If you hit your five hybrid 175 yards, that means you will require a second shot to get your ball to a place where the green will be reachable.

I am perfectly fine with long par 4's that I have to lay up on. There are a couple that I play regularly, and I've just learned to play them like par 5's. But a short par 4 that can't be reached in two just drives me crazy especially when you have to lay up each of your first two shots just to stay out of trouble.

Duke of Hazards wrote:

i think that most drivable par 4's would have some sort of protection, whether a narrow path of entry or bunkering/hazards near the green. they don't want to make it too easy, right?

I don't disagree. But I also think that short par 4's should have a place were a person can lay up to so that he at least has a shot to reach it in two. In these cases, most golfers, if they lay up their tee shot, won't be able to reach the green in two. You have to hit your driver, and then you have to hit it pin-point-perfect.

i guess I didn't understand from your description. so it's not like you can hit a mid iron to 150 and then have a short iron or wedge in? that's weird, then. if it's a short par 4, you should have the option of playing safe and have a clear shot in.

Duke of Hazards wrote:

i guess I didn't understand from your description. so it's not like you can hit a mid iron to 150 and then have a short iron or wedge in? that's weird, then. if it's a short par 4, you should have the option of playing safe and have a clear shot in.

I totally agree. On both holes, given the landing area was so narrow even for a 5w or a hybrid, I talked over the idea of hitting a 7i from the tee with my playing partners. They advised against it. And I understood why after I hit good tee shots and still wasn't in the clear.

You almost have to hit your driver on these holes. And if you miss the fairway, you just hope you have a clear shot back to the fairway.

I love a driveable par 4, but it needs to be playable. There needs to be a bail-out area, or a good layup point for those that want to play a bit more conservative.

On one of my favorite courses, there are 2 drivable par 4s. 1 is done well, the other, not so much.

The first one (the good one), is pretty wide open. The green is guarded by bunkers from the tee, and there is a collection area short of the green where anything that doesn't quite get there ends up. There is also a big tree blocking a straight shot into the green. The fairway turns left around the tree, but a good mid/long iron tee shot will get you clear of the tree and leave a short iron/wedge into the green.


The other is completely blind, with a 90 degree dogleg left at about 150 to the green. There is water short left and short right. The green is huge, compared to most of the other greens on the course. The best play is a mid iron to the 150 marker, and then a second into the green. YOu can try to go for it, but you better get a buddy up at the dogleg to watch your ball, because there is no way you can know where it will go.

My favorite hole in the world is a par 4 at a course in the Twin Cities called Heritage Links. It's only about 270 from the tips, but the green is elevated with a pot bunker in front. The first time I played it, from the whites (250), I embedded my tee shot in the cliff on the far side of the bunker. Took me two strokes to get out of the cliff, and another to get out of the bunker. And then when I saw how the green sloped down towards the forest behind it, I quickly realized that my best play was to hit a 7i off the tee and tame my 100 yard approach.

I love all of you guys talking about drivable par fours. When I get up on the tee of a "drivable par four" and look at the yardage marker it usually says something like you gotta be kidding or in your dreams.There was a day when, Oh well, whats the point of thinking about times gone by. I can still sink a 60 foot putt once in a while.