Well protected par-3, player hits into dense bushes adjacent to green, knows from course experience that ball may be lost. Re-tees with provisional ball, holes it. On the way to retrieving provisional from cup, spots original ball under bushes, with player's identifying mark clearly visible. Can he still declare his original ball "lost" and score 3 for the hole?

I do not think so. You can't "declare a ball lost". According to rule 27-2c a provisional must be abandoned if the original ball is found:

"c.When Provisional Ball to be Abandoned
If the original ball is neither lost nor out of bounds, the player must abandon the provisional ball and continue play with the original ball. "

He would have to play his original ball, or take an unplayable.

If he declares it unplayable he may not use the provisional either. See FAQ #4 on the R&A site under rule 27-2.

I just did some extra reading up on the subject in search of other "solutions". It turns out the rules & decisions book of the R&A actually defines this exact situation.

Decision 27-2b/2 talks about this situation. The tricky part is, the rules talk about "making a stroke with the provisional" (at or beyond the point where the original is believed to be) to determine when the provisional becomes the ball in play. The decision defines taking the ball out of the hole as "making a stroke" here.

So, if he just runs forward and takes his ball out of the hole before it was found, he's safe.

I know this is a slightly different situation from what you described but it would've been an option.

jev wrote:

I just did some extra reading up on the subject in search of other "solutions". It turns out the rules & decisions book of the R&A actually defines this exact situation. Decision 27-2b/2 talks about this situation. The tricky part is, the rules talk about "making a stroke with the provisional" (at or beyond the point where the original is believed to be) to determine when the provisional becomes the ball in play. The decision defines taking the ball out of the hole as "making a stroke" here. So, if he just runs forward and takes his ball out of the hole before it was found, he's safe.

Good to know. If I ever hole a provisional, I'll make sure to drop my club, run up, and get it out of the hole before anyone call start looking for the original.

I recently had a situation where regardless of rules, there was no way that I was willing to recover my tee shot "lost ball".

On a 255 yard par 4, I bounced over the green from the tee into the edge of the woods. Not knowing how deep the ball was and if I'd be able to find it, I hot a provisional. Upon reaching the treeline behind the green my ball was easily visible about 4' deep into the woods in a HUGE bed of poison ivy. I couldn't reach it with my hand or a club (not sure if I'd want to use a poison ivy covered ball anyway) and wasn't about to wade in there regardless of the fact that I'd have a fine stance and easy chip back to the green from there.

Is there any provision for something like this? Could I declare it an unplayable lie? What about abandoning the ball and dropping a fresh non-poison oil covered ball?

Rare situation I'm sure, but with the weather we've had here in southern NY/north New Jersey, poison ivy is growing a bumper crop and some of my local courses are having problems controlling it.

I don't think it's as rare as you'd think it would be.

I mean...if you hit the ball into the rough in many of the southern states, for instance, you might not want to go get it because of the dangerous wildlife that might be lurking about. I actually played a penalty stroke unplayable lie once when I hit into a flock of geese that did not look happy. I'm thinking that would be the rule that would govern unhospitable wildlife, but I could be wrong.

Ha, good call. I got a little too close to a 5' black snake the other day while fishing a ball from a moat around a green. As far as I know, that ball is still there...

DaveMBarb wrote:

I recently had a situation where regardless of rules, there was no way that I was willing to recover my tee shot "lost ball". <snip> Is there any provision for something like this? Could

You may not use a provisional for that situation and should declare it unplayable. It's not a lost ball as per the definition of a "lost ball".

The case you find your ball laying in a dangerous situation is described in decision 1-4/10. That decision says that, in a dangerous situation (they mention rattlesnakes and bee's nests), you may drop your ball within 1 club length (not nearer to the hole etc) to the nearest point out of danger. No penalty involved.

Unfortunately for you, decision 1-4/11 describes what a "dangerous situation" is. Poison ivy is named there. It's NOT a dangerous situation as specified in 1-4/10. So you should either play it or call it unplayable and apply rule 28 (unplayable ball). The reason is poison ivy is considered an "unpleasant lie" that is "a common occurrence which players must accept".

But... bjohn13, you hit your ball in a flock of geese that where ready to attack and you deemed it unplayable and took a penalty... you didn't have to!

Speaking of dangerous lies...I was playing Maadison Green Golf Course about 3 years ago.I was playing with a guy who they paired me with.On the 18th hole I hit my drive in the right rough and he hit his to the left side of the fairway near the rough.We had seperate carts so we each proceeded to our balls.As I approach my ball,I hear him call out"Hey I just found a prov1 in the fairway,quickly followed by "here is a nike one black"Then"Another pro v"I look over to where he is standing looking for the golf ball leprechan,when I notice sitting under a tree in the shade about 20 ft from the guy is a 10 ft alligator.I warned him and he quickly vacated the area.Obviously the owners of all those balls abandoned them when they saw the gator.Wise move.

Werepuppie wrote:

Speaking of dangerous lies...I was playing Maadison Green Golf Course about 3 years ago.I was playing with a guy who they paired me with.On the 18th hole I hit my drive in the right rough and he hit his to the left side of the fairway near the rough.We had seperate carts so we each proceeded to our balls.As I approach my ball,I hear him call out"Hey I just found a prov1 in the fairway,quickly followed by "here is a nike one black"Then"Another pro v"I look over to where he is standing looking for the golf ball leprechan,when I notice sitting under a tree in the shade about 20 ft from the guy is a 10 ft alligator.I warned him and he quickly vacated the area.Obviously the owners of all those balls abandoned them when they saw the gator.Wise move.

Did he at least grab some of the balls on his way out? LOL. Whew!!! close call though!

story time!

Playing at the Leonard Country Club earlier this summer, I saw a snake sitting on the green basking in the sun while we were still about 250 yards out. I got the words "there's a snake" out of my mouth before I realized that my playing partner is deathly afraid of snakes and completely paniced.

I learned an immportant lesson that day. If a similar situation was to ever come up, I know to start the sentence with "look up ahead about 250 yards!"

Ha ha, you guys play at some interesting courses! The most dangerous thing I ever get to see on my course is a rabit .

Quote:

The reason is poison ivy is considered an "unpleasant lie" that is "a common occurrence which players must accept".

I'd certainly call poison ivy "unpleasant". There is no change I'm going to risk itching for days just to play by the rules. It seems to me that the rule is skewed anyway. When it comes to the mentioned bees or snakes, does an extra 3' of distance matter? I've been chased 10 times that distance by ground hornets and wasps on course before. Whoever wrote that rule has a very different perception of danger than I do apparently...