Thanks Red i think I"M getting a little red. I never really fancied myself the kinda guy to be giving advice but it's nice to know it's not so bad. haha.

Tempo is everything if you want to hit it long. Hitting long has little to do with swinging hard. The smoother the swing the farther it will go because the speed comes from the release. The body will move only so fast, it's the wrists and release a the proper time through the ball that adds that extra speed.

Man bjohn, you just step up to the ball and hit it huh? I guess that's one way from getting all tense and overthinking; I may need to try that.

And even though your swing is over-the-top, you seem to come into the ball from the inside very well. Keeping your arms in close aids that I'm sure. That's one thing that I just can't make myself do.

Plus, you have good tempo as well. I now fully realize that tempo is something I have to work on. I'm nowhere near having the kind of tempo that you and birdiexris have.

@birdiexris,

I would love to have your swing; if it means hitting the ball consistently long and within a couple yards of the fairway. I couldn't imagine how much shorter a course plays by hitting that long and straight.

Are you self taught or have you had professional guidance? I'm thinking at this point that I'll never be a good driver of the ball on my own; I have too many issues to work out.

I do plan on taking more video of my swing the next time I play; as I'm getting some very good advice from you guys. I appreciate it.

redsfan15 wrote:

@birdiexris, I would love to have your swing; if it means hitting the ball consistently long and within a couple yards of the fairway. I couldn't imagine how much shorter a course plays by hitting that long and straight. Are you self taught or have you had professional guidance? I'm thinking at this point that I'll never be a good driver of the ball on my own; I have too many issues to work out. I do plan on taking more video of my swing the next time I play; as I'm getting some very good advice from you guys. I appreciate it.

After my grandfather taught me the basics, it was just me for a long time. I had one lesson when i just couldn't figure things out and i ran with that for a few years. then had another lesson just a few weeks ago and will again tomorrow. I'm to the point where i just have to squeeze that little bit of consistency into what i have now and i should be ok. Lessons are very helpful because you have someone who knows what they're doing that is looking at your swing. that really helps. I always admit to people that i have an unconventional swing but then again, so does jim furyk. Maybe it's a PA thing? LOL.

Well...I took my practice swings before I turned on the camera and stepped up to the ball. The practice swings for me are all about establishing tempo.

For me, it's all been about watching other people's swings and comparing them to the pros. I watch stop frame...slow motion...trying to figure out where a good golf swing is in each frame...and I've literally taken dozens of videos of my own swing to compare.

But Now I have to go back to working on my short game. It has been neglected lately, and it's really starting to show in my scores.

Takeaway, downswing, most everything looks good to me. What kind of shot do you normally have? How long have you been playing golf?

Couple of items I noticed were ball position (birdieXris +1) and the downswing sequencing. Here's the usual stuff I work up but I added a sequence with Bernhard Langer.

Clubhead path, just a little bit over the top, but pretty good. The club should start up on an outside path and come down on an inside path. Your downswing could be just a bit more to the inside for a handy little draw.

Swing planes, really pretty good.


Sequence downswing with Langer part1.
Notice how Bernhard gets just a bit more wrist cock at the top, this is going to add some power. Your position in shots 1-3 is really looking good. Bernhard holds this angle for as long as he can, your angle starts to let out just a bit. His ball position is just inside of his left heel, yours looks to be center, or maybe even back of center.


Sequence downswing with Langer part2.
Same story as above, he's holding the release for as long as he can. In the end he releases 60 degrees of angle with the wrists just before impact. You are releasing around 40 degrees because the angle is diminishing during the swing instead of just before impact. Its hard to tell what your impact position is because the video skipped a frame there.


Posture is pretty important at impact. One thing that I noticed from looking at this comparison is that Langer's spine is correctly tilted back just a bit, this reduces spin on the ball when the driver face contacts the ball because it is on a slightly upward path. Your ball position prevents you from swinging upwards into the ball, maybe puts an extra bit of backspin mustard on it. Having the ball position back also prevents you from tilting your spine correctly at impact. Lack of spine tilt could contribute to the over the top since standing more upright promotes a bit steeper swing path. Notice when you tilt your spine that your right shoulder drops lower than your left.

sepfeiff wrote:

Takeaway, downswing, most everything looks good to me. What kind of shot do you normally have? How long have you been playing golf?

Thanks for the analysis sepfeiff; you do great work.

My usual shot is either a fade, slice or pull. I've been playing golf since I was probably 12 or 13 but really only that last 3 years seriously; and I've always battled a slice.

It's good to hear some good feedback on my swing. Yeah, I know my posture is poor and my ball positioning is even worse; and these things I'm working on in my backyard to correct. I really need to get to a range though.

I went out yesterday and played 9 but only hit driver twice. I tried to correct a couple things pointed out here in this forum (stance & swing plane) and here are my results:

First drive: hit a fade verging on a slice that probably would've went about 225 to 230 yards if it didn't hit a tree on the fly at about 190 to 195 yards out. If I would've started my drive to the left side of the fairway I would've been okay.

Second drive: hit kind of a pop fly but fairly straight that carried probably 205 yards and rolled another 20. Not a solid shot but at least it was straight and didn't put me in trouble.

The next time my Dad and I get out to the course, I'm going to take more video and hopefully will be able to report some progress.

Not to throw too many things at you too quick, but i did see something else. Particularly with the photo breakdowns of your swing. Lower body action. I initially thought you were squatting on the ball, but it's actually a flare in your knees.

In this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwTe6pERRyw


I noticed that your left knee (right of screen) initiates the downswing and the distance in your knees increases by what looks like about 6 inches - maybe more. I'll tell you from experience that movement is going to make you hurt when you start whipping at the ball. It's also preventing your right side from coming through and robbing you of some power. I developed a move like that when people started telling me "initiate with your lower body". I would basically "throw" my left side in the direction of the target, trying to get that extra power in the swing. It was too fast and not working together with the rest of the swing. Keep that lower body together. Watch the video over and watch how fast your left side clears, and how much lag between clearing and the club head coming through. Lag is ok if it's created in the wrist cock, but not that way it is there. That is a biggie. Work that out and i can pretty much guarantee you another 10 yards on every shot.

birdieXris wrote:

Not to throw too many things at you too quick, but i did see something else. Particularly with the photo breakdowns of your swing. Lower body action. I initially thought you were squatting on the ball, but it's actually a flare in your knees.

Yeah, I noticed that too. sepfeiff thinks I have a decent takeaway and backswing, so the reason for my slice has got to be ball position and the premature clearing of my lower body. Right?

So what happens if I don't move my lower body at all and swing with nothing but upper body? Does that have an opposite effect and I start hooking the ball?

Thanks for the comments, I like to help. Hope to be able to spur more suggestions with them also.

Agree with BirdieXris. Notice Langers right knee (left to us) starts to point to the target on the downswing. Let's see if the ball position moved forward allows your body to move towards the ball a bit better.

redsfan15 wrote:

birdieXris wrote: Not to throw too many things at you too quick, but i did see something else. Particularly with the photo breakdowns of your swing. Lower body action. I initially thought you were squatting on the ball, but it's actually a flare in your knees. Yeah, I noticed that too. sepfeiff thinks I have a decent takeaway and backswing, so the reason for my slice has got to be ball position and the premature clearing of my lower body. Right? So what happens if I don't move my lower body at all and swing with nothing but upper body? Does that have an opposite effect and I start hooking the ball?

haha, then you're Greg Norman. LOL. (he had a very shoulder-driven swing). anyway..... Seriously though, no movement is just as bad as too much - and there's really no such thing as too much if it's in sync with your swing. Sam snead had a lot of lower body movement, but it was in complete sync with his upper body and tempo. He was the best ball striker i can think of. Even Jack used to lift his left heel waaaaay off the ground. It's not that you have too much movement, it's just separated.
As for the other stuff, Sep is totally correct in what he said. everything in the takeaway and backswing looks good, but that "throwing motion" with the left knee is going to really hurt the swing for you. I wish i could tell you a quick fix for it, but i don't know one. I had a few people watch me and just learned what it felt like to not do it through repetition and swinging the club. In hindsight, fixing the lower body will probably help with the wrist angle and release issue too. It's really tough fixing something by yourself. you need that 2nd or 3rd set of eyes. That's why i started going to a Pro.

Okay, I have an update for all.

I hit some balls with driver last night. Going into the session I knew I was going to make some drastic changes, if nothing else but to experiment and see what works.

These are the suggestions I received that I wanted to incorporate into my new swing. I heard that I need to correct my posture; stand closer to the ball; put the ball forward in my stance; and slow my hip clearing so that it matches my arms on the downswing.

Here's what I changed and found produced the best results.

First off, I changed my stance. I stood with my feet spread a little wider than my shoulders; and closer to the ball so that I didn't slouch or reach for the ball. I then put the ball 1 to 2 inches off my left instep so that I could come into the ball on an upswing. I also changed my grip. I have been using an interlocking grip but went to a baseball style grip; the baseball style grip allows me to have a little more control over my driver and to square the clubface a little better at impact.

The biggest change I made was to my lower body on the downswing. I really focused on keeping my lower body in sync with my upper body.

Wow! Was I striking the ball good; and was actually able to draw the ball a bit. I never draw the ball with driver so I know I had found something that may finally help keep me in or around the fairway. I was carrying the ball about 220 to 225 yards too. I'll take that and in the fairway all day long.

Now, I'm not sure which was the biggest factor in my good driving (it may have been just by slowing my swing down a touch for better control) but I plan on taking every change to the course for a test.

I'll post video the next time my Dad and I go out.

Great news!

Minor changes, red. Make a big difference! Glad to hear you're hitting it well! Can't wait for new video!

without reading everyone elses, i can't really tell that much on alignment. the one i do see is your arms are not hanging freely from your shoulders. they are pushed out a little bit. try to bring your hands a little more under your shoulders, like an axis point for a 90 degree angle...