Since you are a proponent of "Tee It Forward", and you are expressing frustration that all tees are not rated for all golfers, why not attempt to get courses to change their "naming" of the different colored tee's as "ladies/kids" and "men's"?

Why not push for a simple color designation, so that new players, or players who just can't hit it that far off the tee, aren't embarrased by playing from the "ladies" tees. Conversely, I have played with a couple of women who could very easily have moved back to play from the same tees I was on, but they were intimidated by playing from the "men's" tees and those tees were not rated for women to maintain their handicap.

If one plays from an unrated set of tees, the USGA Handicap Manual has a chart for adjusting the course rating and slope.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-05/

These adjustments are not meant to serve as a permanent rating. If one belongs to a club or plays frequently from an unrated set of tees, I agree with mjaber that a request could be made to have the tees rated.

I also agree with mjaber that using neutral colors for the tee designations makes "teeing it forward" less gender sensitive. The course I consider "home" went to a Black/Blue/White/Gold color scheme and rated all the tees for men and women with the exception of the Championship (Black) tees.

To the point of the original post, of the supposed "modified rules"... I think it's a load of manure.

Play by the rules, or don't play. There are winners, and losers. There are good golfers, and there are bad golfers. I happen feel as though I'm somewhere in between. When you stop and think about it, who cares? Most of us are never going to shoot par. I know I'm not. I honestly don't care. Golf is fun because it's a challenge. It's fun because I'm spending an afternoon with a few friends, outside, enjoying myself, the scenery, and the company. If you don't like the rules the way they are written, petition the USGA/R&A to change them. Don't just decide you're only going to follow the rules that you think make sense.

I'm tired of everyone having to feel good about everything. Sometimes, life just sucks. Deal with it. If you don't like the scores you are getting... practice, try a different course, change your expectations, or take up another hobby.

mjaber wrote:

Since you are a proponent of "Tee It Forward", and you are expressing frustration that all tees are not rated for all golfers, why not attempt to get courses to change their "naming" of the different colored tee's as "ladies/kids" and "men's"?

Thanks, I am trying but it is a long process. I have also been successful in working with 8 golf courses so far that have a set of tees Forward of the Red Tees that are now fully Rated for both men and women. I also have my personal scorecards for several more courses so my wife can play from where the Forward Tees should be. Eventually some of the courses will add those Forward Tees. I have already calculated the temporary Ratings for those Tees.

For more information see: http://modifiedrulesofgolf.com/forward-tees/

I would appreciate anything you can do to help.

mjaber wrote:

Play by the rules, or don't play. If you don't like the scores you are getting... practice, try a different course, change your expectations, or take up another hobby.

Well so much for growing the game.

hmmm...there are thousands of golfers that post their scores here. Regardless of what I think, my guess is that there are hundreds if not thousands of golfers here that play by the Modified Rules of Golf whether they know it or not. So if one or two or a hundred want to "tighten" up the modified rules that they are already playing, whats the harm of a couple of people pointing out that there is actually a website they could use to refine the rules that they choose to play?

My experience has always been most beginner golfers start out playing something similar to the MROG. As they get more and more addicted to the game, they start adhering to more and more of the "real" rules until they get to the point that they are playing the way the game is meant to be played.

Also, mostly after you get to a certain age, you don't have the skill you may have had before, or perhaps the addiction has worn off a little. You still enjoy getting out of the house and hanging out with the buddies, but might be more into the "get together" part of the experience than following the rules to the T. No harm in making the game easier on yourself as long as everyone is following the same rules.....I mean really, if you're golfing with your grandpa and he shanks one to the right, and everyone believes it stayed in, are you gonna send the 85 year old back to the tee box after you discover he went OB?

Lighten up rule gods. I'm bet my house that every one of you has played by MROG at one time in your life

Bravo....Well said....I'm "only" 79 but thank you for your on point perspective.

Fellas, fellas, we all play the game because we love it. I agree with GranpaB and Bryan in the sense that most people just want to have some fun an the course without the added pressure of a rule book. So they modify some. OK. It's all good and it keeps things moving on a crowded weekend.

Next week starts league play. It's handicaped as it should be. Match play. That format is a 'bagger's' buffet.

We have a rules committee.

I wonder why?

GrampaB70 wrote:

Well so much for growing the game.

Changing the rules isn't going to grow the game. People aren't playing less golf because the rules are too hard, or because the game is too hard. They are playing less golf because they don't have the money to pay the greens fees, or because they have other things they want to do besides spend a day at a golf course. Courses are closing because they had a poor business model.

Do you really believe that the First Tee is teaching anything but the Rules of Golf, as written and published jointly by the USGA and R&A? Do you think a high school golf program is teaching anything other than the Rules of Golf? That's what is going to grow the game.

I didn't start playing golf until I was in my 30s. My scores haven't changed by a huge margin since I started, but I enjoy a round more now than I did when I first started. It's not because I play by different rules, but because I figured out that it's not worth getting mad every time you don't shoot a great score.

What everyone needs to understand is that there are always rules, and they should be followed. Whether you're talking golf, bowling, competitve basket-weaving, or driving a car, there are rules. You can't just decide what rules you want to follow, and expect everyone else who follows all of the rules to be okay with it.

"Sure," you'll say, "but golf is just a game, and I'm not keeping my handicap anywhere. It's not so important that I need to follow all of the rules." That may be true, but you've now started the ball rolling. "What other rules don't make sense? What other rules can I change to make my life easier and make me happier?" Park in the handicap spot, because you're just running in the store for a second. It's late and there is nobody else on the road, don't stop for the red light.

The bottom line, GrampaB70, is that when you start making up your own rules, or deciding what rules you do and do not want to follow, and then start telling everyone else that it's okay to do it, you're not making things better, you're making them worse. You might not make the jump from following the rules in golf to following other rules, but I promise you that there are people that will. I just hope you're not driving through an intersection when they decide they don't have to stop for the stop sign.

mjaber wrote:

What everyone needs to understand is that there are always rules, and they should be followed. I just hope you're not driving through an intersection when they decide they don't have to stop for the stop sign.

Generally I agree with these comments. Glad you hear you have never exceeded the speed limit on a Freeway even when most cars were going 5 to 9 mph over the limit. Glad to hear you have never come to a 2 mph "rolling stop" at a stop sign at a rural intersection when you could see there were no other cars in sight.

When you are in a school zone I expect you to follow all the traffic rules. When you are on a rural road with no other traffic, I don't care much what you do. When you play in a tournament I expect you to follow the Rules, but on a casual day of golf I don't care what you do as long as you don't drive your cart on the green and you pick up your cigar butts.

I see from your stats you have a handicap of 22.1 and an average driving distance of 165 yards. With a handicap you must also follow the USGA Handicap Manual. Section 4 of the Manual says in part: "The game of golf is based on the premise that a player will play as well as the player can play. Under the USGA Handicap System, each player is required to record a hole score for a hole not finished, not played, or not played under "The Rules of Golf,"

The Tee if Forward initiative promoted by the PGA and USGA http://www.pga.com/pga-america/pga-feature/pga-and-usga-step-new-sets-tees-in-nationwide-tee-it-forward-initiative contains a chart that recommends a golfer with an average drive of 165 yards use a set of Tees with an 18 hole yardage of about 4,400 yards. If you are not using those Tees are you "playing as well as you can play"? Or is this just something you elect to ignore? On second thought, if you moved forward you might score better and you might lower your handicap and you might not like that in competition.

Intersting use of a combination of sarcasm and seriousness.

Yes, I obey the traffic laws. I maintain a speed on the freeways so as to keep up with the general flow of traffic, which most days is well BELOW the speed limit, since I'm commuting during rush hour. When I was younger, yes, I drove well over the speed limit. However, I grew up and realized that the rules were there for a reason, and following them makes sure that everyone gets to where they are going safely.

I don't play in tournaments or any official golf competitions of any kind. I play because I enjoy it, and because it's a challenge. I follow the rules because they are the rules. I have fun most times I play. The few times I haven't, it has been because the people I was playing with were not following the rules, of both the course and the game. I no longer play with those people. If I were to decide to play in a competition, I would be "flighted" exactly where I belong, because the scores I post here are the scores I have shot. I don't pick and choose, every round I play, I post. I don't do it for the handicap. I do it so that I have an accurate representation of my other stats.

If you cared to actually read the stats from my page that you are improperly quoting, you would see that my average DRIVING distance is actually about 205, not the 165 that you believe it to be. 165 is my average distance off the tee, taking into account holes where I don't hit driver, including par 3s. In reality, my average driving distance is probably about 215, but when I decide to log my driving distance, I chart every first tee shot with my driver, including the occassional "duff" that only goes 60 yars or so.

Typically, I play from the white tees, which is usually 1 set forward from the longest tees (at least in my area). I have occasionally played from the "back" tees, and was still able to shoot a comfortable score, though on a couple of longer par 4's, I found it necessary to lay up with my 2nd shot. I play from exactly which tees I should be playing from. I can hit every green in regulation from the tees I play on a course. All I have to do is look at the length of the par 3's to determine which tees I should be playing from. If I moved forward, my handicap would most likely increase, since the lower score I shoot would not offset the change in the course and slope rating.

I like the idea of Tee It Forward. I believe most people think they hit the ball alot farther than they actually do. Tee It Forward still wants you to follow the Rules of Golf, not just the rules that suit you.

I honestly don't care what rules you choose to play by, as long as you're not holding up the groups behind you, and you're not in my group and cheating. Many of your "suggested" modifications are just that.

Your website points to other sports that have different rules for the Professional sport versus that amateur. Your comparisons are not equal to your proposition of the modified rules of golf. Yes, there are different rules for these sports at different levels, but the rules are uniform across that level. Your proposal is that we can pick and choose which rules we want to follow in any given round, as long as everyone in the group agrees.

If you don't think that the game is not affected by yardage you had better talk to women who are put off by unrealistic yardages. I speak to womens groups all the time and they all agree that a 340 yard hole is so scary they cant entice beginning players to participate
Only 12% of the women in the U.S. play golf. They are an untapped revenue source for the golf industry. They and junior golfers would benefit from programs like Play It Forward and Modified Rules Of Golf,Owners of golf courses would be wise to adapt these programs if for no other reason but increasing play. It also speeds up pace of play which should please everyone including those that want to play with strict rules.

mjaber wrote:

"Sure," you'll say, "but golf is just a game, and I'm not keeping my handicap anywhere. It's not so important that I need to follow all of the rules." That may be true, but you've now started the ball rolling. "What other rules don't make sense? What other rules can I change to make my life easier and make me happier?" Park in the handicap spot, because you're just running in the store for a second. It's late and there is nobody else on the road, don't stop for the red light. The bottom line, GrampaB70, is that when you start making up your own rules, or deciding what rules you do and do not want to follow, and then start telling everyone else that it's okay to do it, you're not making things better, you're making them worse. You might not make the jump from following the rules in golf to following other rules, but I promise you that there are people that will. I just hope you're not driving through an intersection when they decide they don't have to stop for the stop sign.

I agree mjaber. Most rules exist for a practical reason, not just to put a wet blanket on everyone's fun. I understand that for people to enjoy sports on a recreational level, sometime the rules need modification. You can't play NFL rules football in your backyard. But one of the beauties of golf is that everyone from the lowest peon to the best player in the world can play under the same basic rules. To me that is cool. I don't always like the scores I shoot, but hey I can live with it. I don't particular love my handicap right now but I like that it gives me a legitimate sense of my rank in the universe of golf.

I'm gonna turn the tables and say those who are bent on modifying the golf rules might want to lighten up. I know it's ironic as probably they would say that I'm the one that needs to lighten up. But what I am saying is that its just a game. Who cares what your score is at the end of the day as long as you had fun. My hunch is that for most people, deep down, it is more fulfilling to card a proper score, even if its higher than what you wanted.

Besides if you want to improve your lie, the rules of golf allow for that. You simply take a penalty for unplayable lie. Don't like your tee shot? The rules allow you to re-hit as many times as you want, just add the proper penalty strokes. So simple and easy. You may not like the score once you're done but again it's all about fun, the number is as meaningless as you want it to be.

joe jones wrote:

If you don't think that the game is not affected by yardage you had better talk to women who are put off by unrealistic yardages. I speak to womens groups all the time and they all agree that a 340 yard hole is so scary they cant entice beginning players to participate Only 12% of the women in the U.S. play golf. They are an untapped revenue source for the golf industry. They and junior golfers would benefit from programs like Play It Forward and Modified Rules Of Golf,Owners of golf courses would be wise to adapt these programs if for no other reason but increasing play. It also speeds up pace of play which should please everyone including those that want to play with strict rules.

Joe, women have been enjoying the game for eons. The US women's amateur championship is well over a hundred years old. Women golfers have had to take on 340 yard holes and for most of those eons and had to do it using rocks and tree limbs practically. Most women golfers have not had the benefit of modern club and ball technology. Why lament the challenge of today's woman golfer? They have it easier than ever.

I am not talking about accomplished womens golfers. I have played in several LPGA Pro Am's and I am painfully aware of how talented they are. Try being out driven by 40 yards by a women to have a lesson in humility. I was referring to beginners that are fearful of looking so bad that they stay away from the game. Take a survey of presidents of womens league and you will understand. Think back to the first time you swung at a golf ball.I'm sure the ball looked small and the hole looked far away when you were beginning. You could probably hit the ball pretty well just with pure athletic ability. Now think of a women or girl that has never done anything athletic and can only hit the ball 80 yards.On top of that they have been taught to be demure and lady like. Makes a difference don't you think?