I play in the men’s club at the muni near my house. The sandbagging is absolutely unbelievable. Last Saturday, a “14” handicap shot a gross 74 (2 over) which equates to a net 59. That is impossible. That can’t happen with honest scoring. On the same day an 8 shot 73 which can happen. It is a drag teeing off and knowing that I have no chance of winning anything. However, I don’t know what, if anything, I can do. I think that the guy running the handicapping doesn’t care. Bummer.

it is "cap facking"....

and it pisses me off.

That too pisses me off!!! When we have MGA events and guys are shooting net 61, 62 I get real upset. Especially since I am a +1. I have lobbied for gross and net prizes - some successfully, some not.

http://www.popeofslope.com/sandbagging/odds.html

According to the USGA formulae, the odds of beating your handicap by 13-14 strokes is off the charts. The "net differential" I believe means the difference between the score's differential and one's handicap. For example, A 10 handicapper playing a course rated 72.0/113 would shoot his handicap with an 82. An 82 gives him a 10.0 differential. The 10.0 differential less his handicap (10) equals -0-. According to the chart, a "10" equalling his handicap happens about once every 5 rounds. Not too bad.

So taking this same player and course, if he shot 74, his differential would be 2.0. Subtracting his handicap of 10 yields a net differential of -8. The odds of a 10 handicapper beating his handicap by 8 strokes is 4,467 to 1. The odds of a 15 course handicap beating his handicap by over 10 strokes is in excess of 37,000 to 1.

Under the USGA Handicap system, a player's "Tournament" rounds are tracked separately and noted with a "T". If a player posts two or more "exceptional" rounds in a calendar year, his handicap can be reduced and his handicap is noted with an "R". So essentially, the USGA allows one really great round in a "Tournament" setting, after that one might be subject to reduction. Once is lucky, twice or more is suspicious.

Sandbagging or plain old cheating. Either or both. Same thing. I once played a 12 handicap that hit me with 8 birdies in match play. He was a notorious gambler and everyone new he turned in nothing but high scores in medal play. In match play he didn't have to report his medal scores. The rules committee changed the rule and he quit the club to go to another club that allowed him to continue to cheat. At least he was somebody else's problem.

bkuehn1952 wrote:

http://www.popeofslope.com/sandbagging/odds.html According to the USGA formulae, the odds of beating your handicap by 13-14 strokes is off the charts. The "net differential" I believe means the difference between the score's differential and one's handicap. For example, A 10 handicapper playing a course rated 72.0/113 would shoot his handicap with an 82. An 82 gives him a 10.0 differential. The 10.0 differential less his handicap (10) equals -0-. According to the chart, a "10" equalling his handicap happens about once every 5 rounds. Not too bad. So taking this same player and course, if he shot 74, his differential would be 2.0. Subtracting his handicap of 10 yields a net differential of -8. The odds of a 10 handicapper beating his handicap by 8 strokes is 4,467 to 1. The odds of a 15 course handicap beating his handicap by over 10 strokes is in excess of 37,000 to 1. Under the USGA Handicap system, a player's "Tournament" rounds are tracked separately and noted with a "T". If a player posts two or more "exceptional" rounds in a calendar year, his handicap can be reduced and his handicap is noted with an "R". So essentially, the USGA allows one really great round in a "Tournament" setting, after that one might be subject to reduction. Once is lucky, twice or more is suspicious.

Last year I had a crazy low couple of tournament rounds that activated the exceptional round indicator after a point that my index was above what was likely to shoot those scores (a 81 and 82). I had a "R" on my USGA club hcpi for a few months, until the tournament scores dropped off after a year. The first one I think my course handicap was 18 and I shot 9 over par. Just a great day, how else can I explain? Normally I play a good bit over my handicap in tournaments but that one things were clicking.

Now - regarding true sandbagging and cheating. I'm not sure but think I saw a little of both in one of the league things. One was a guy new to the league first tournament in our flight of 14-18.9 indexers who told me he used to be a 2. He was killing it for a while, then suddenly on the back nine, took doubles on the last few holes.suspect... the other incident was a search for a missing ball with everyone looking here and there, out of the corner of my eye thought I saw the player drop a hand towel, a flash of white under it, then he picks up the towel from the ground "oh here it is" and quickly chipped on the green from the fringe. It happened quick, not sure I really saw it or not, but suspect...

Those are the only two weird things I've seen though in the tournaments I have done, however.

jfurr wrote:

Those are the only two weird things I've seen though in the tournaments I have done, however.

First, having an "R" does not mean one is a sandbagger. I did not mean to infer that is always the case. Players that are improving, sometimes rapidly, can get an "R" merely because their handicap is not dropping fast enough. And one does not have to shoot 10+ shots under their handicap to get an "R". You probably earned your "R" because you were getting better. I wish they had an "I" (for Increase) for people like me when we are getting worse, rapidly.

Funny about your two possible brushes with practiced sandbaggers. I once played in a qualifier with a guy that was playing flawlessly. Down the stretch, he too seemed to lose it. I always wondered if once he figured he was going to qualify whether he decided to ease off the gas pedal. The other involved a "found ball", too. From my perspective this guy's drive was headed into the next county as his pull hook sailed deep into the bordering woods. As the rest of the group made a cursory inspection of the edge of the woods he found his ball a couple feet off the fairway. Maybe it bounced off a tree but I never heard any contact and I thought that ball was DEEP in the woods because it was still rising when it went over the first line of trees. How does the saying go, some are born lucky and some make their own luck.

bkuehn1952 wrote:

First, having an "R" does not mean one is a sandbagger. I did not mean to infer that is always the case.

didn't think you did -- just throwing out a "well it happened to me" story...

My case the R didn't appear until months later when my hcp went way up b/c carding bad higher rounds -- those low tourneys were kicking in and held it down as the system is designed. My index is all over the place... (sigh) I think right now it's about right tho for now at low 13's.

BDucharm is right on. There is a sweet spot at around 8-12 HCP where a player could have a good day with the driver, or make some critical chips close to the hole, making up 5 or 6 strokes on their handicap. The 10 HCP player is a great player and when one of them has a good day... the low handicappers don't stand a chance in low net tournaments. High handicap players just can't make up that many strokes unless they are struck by lightning or something...too many holes in their game.

Low net tournaments are useless to 0-5 handicappers, total waste of money if your objective is to win.

when the guy running the handicapping doesn't care, it tends to be a problem. that's why i like the WAHC tournament. They're serious about their handicapping.

that being said - i sympathize with getting cheated out of tournaments. low handicap tournaments are tough to police because better players CAN have those sorts of days. As a guy who's shot everything from an 87 down to a 72 in the last month or so, i get the sandbagging thing a lot from people that i don't know. Even when i register for the WAHC i say "please look at ALL my scores to get proper perspective on my game" LOL. When i was a 6 i went in with a 1 over score on my card. If i posted 1 over par on that tournament in any round they probably would have brought me into "the room" and beat me with a hose.

It's not always cheating, but i find it suspect when on a tournament day these guys are turning in the best round of their lives. I've become a pretty good judge of swing character. When they swing i can pin down their handicap within a couple points generally. I speak up now if i don't think somethings right.

My perspective on this bagging bulls..t is any golfer with a 'cap' less than 6 has '0' chance at ever winning a damn thing. You have to shoot around 76-78 to be close. Under pressure too. And that only nets a result around par. Par won't even get a smell. The higher capper has a lot less pressure. If he happens to hit one or two OB or in the woods, well, whats new. But if he can keep it together he can have a great day. The low capper is f..ed with one BAD shot.

I know a few guys that seem go low when necessary. Match play is the worst. Just win enough holes to close it out but turn in a so so card. In our league top 8 teams make playoffs. Finish 8th is the goal with highest possible cap and then pour it on.